Feb 22, 2023 09:50:31 AM by Mykola A
My success story or "how to lose a week's earnings".
Let me start by saying that I have been working here for several years. This platform provides many opportunities and is quite useful. Especially lately, when a war going here, in Ukraine and it is more difficult to survive. Yes, working for Upwork is unsafe, with a risk to life, requires huge additional costs.. but it is one of the few opportunities currently available. The story is about something else. So, let's get to the point: Upwork Hourly Protection.
So I received another joyful message that I returned all the money to the client. This is not the first such refund, it happens periodically. And every time they take money from me under different pretexts. In many cases, it was my fault: I didn’t describe the work clearly enough, I didn’t constantly click the mouse, various things. But every time I lost money, I studied, read the rules, found out what was wrong and improved. But this case was outstanding and I want to tell you more about it.
I submitted another application and the client answered me because he needed a very complex and urgent job. My qualifications are sufficient. The price suited the client and after a short interview I reserved the time, he opened the contract and we started. I will not go into the details of the work as I am a professional and just did what I can. Of course, taught by previous forced refunds, I started the tracking program, fill the description and conducted all the negotiations through Upwork messages. The timer was running, the keys were clicking, the work was being done and there were no signs of trouble. I completed the work within the stipulated time and in a proper manner. Client was completely satisfied with the work, thanked me and closed the contact with a good review.
And now I find out that I returned my money back to the client. Of course I decided to figure out what happened because these are my livelihoods and I was not happy about their loss. Reason was: "Low Activity & High Hourly Rate". I was sure that this was a mistake because of the activity, since I took the time to complete the check before handing over the work, everything was fine. So I contacted support and asked to figure out what's going on. I also asked the client what happened. The client responded immediately. He said that he was surprised by the message about the refund. And he did not ask for a refund and paid everything properly. Let's get back to support. The agent replied that there were problems with the payment and I did not qualify for protection. He explained that I had requested a huge hourly for the work, exceeding my previous earnings by a staggering 5%. Of course I don't understand why the agent decides what price I'm worth. Yes, I take less for easy work, more for difficult work, and I don’t see any violations in this. The client is satisfied with the price - he pays, not satisfied - he is looking for another. I showed the agent a screenshot of my earnings and they were the same, less and even more. There were no anomalies in my hourly. The agent studied my arguments and answered: "We cannot force the client to issue a bonus payment to you for the amount reversed and Upwork will not cover those payments. Moving forward, to avoid this thing happening again, please use the Upwork Team app to track your time and make sure that your hours are logged according to the Upwork Hourly Protection guidelines."
So I followed all the payment protection rules: Made screenshots, accounted for activity, conducted all negotiations through Upwork, checked everything and did everything as required. Then they simply took my money and advised me to move forward.
I am confused, maybe that this was some kind of mistake and someone from the Upwork managers will want to look into the situation.
I hope my story will be interesting to the community and bring some joy and variety to your lives. I wish you all happiness, peace and great jobs.
ps. I apologize for possible errors in the text. It may be unpleasant for English speakers to read this, but English is not my native language and I tried to write better.
Feb 22, 2023 10:57:33 AM by Jonathan L
Your English was fine. In fact, better than many posts written by English language natives.
The confusing part of your story is how the refund got triggered in the first place. Of course, your client could be lying to you that everything went through fine on their end - wouldn't be the first time an unethical client passed the blame. Other than that, only a technical glitch or automated interruption (per some policy) at any of the financial institutions in the route between your client's bank and Upwork Escrow could result in the payment failure.
As for the Hourly Protection, they should at least cover you for your published Hourly rate, up to the limit published in the ToS. Your experience adds further to my (and others') suspicion that at least one review team at Upwork has implemented a deny-first policy to reduce Upwork's expenses. Here is a recent high-profile case: Zaid was denied for a reason (non-work activity) that was obviously false and was separate from an actual issue (insufficient memos) that could have been cited.
Feb 22, 2023 11:23:33 AM by Anthony H
Mykola,
Yes, your English is fine.
I'm sorry to jump on the wrong issue here, but I'm no expert at the vagaries of Upwork. However, this sentence caught me eye:
"Yes, working for Upwork is unsafe, with a risk to life, requires huge additional costs.. but it is one of the few opportunities currently available."
OK, I'll risk sounding extremely naive, but working for Upwork is unsafe and requires huge additional costs for freelance workers in Ukraine? I had no idea. How is this happening? My assumption was that Upwork offered a logical option for someone in a country where the economy was heavily affected by a military confict. How is it unsafe? How is it a huge additional cost to you? Please advise.
Feb 22, 2023 11:52:34 AM Edited Feb 22, 2023 12:18:46 PM by Mykola A
Anthony,
I understand your interest and will explain.
There are constant shelling with missiles of mass destruction. Any house can be destroyed at any moment, there are no safe places. Examples.
I can hide in a shelter or continue to work at the risk of being killed. But I respect my clients and do the work completely.
About expenses. Infrastructure is being destroyed: power outages, faultly\destroyed communication stations. You need to buy a gasoline generator, fuel for it, solar panels, etc. You also need access to satellite Internet and other required tools like batteries and portable heaters, lighters. In peacetime all this was not necessary. All these expenses are not my client's problem. He wants a result. Fast and efficient. It doesn't matter where I am or what it costs me.
ps Sorry for offtopic. Just answered question.
Feb 22, 2023 11:32:27 AM by Mykola A
It was the usual Unautorized refund of which there are many. There are a lot of scammers, no one catches them. Yes, it's called stupidly, newbies don't understand what "I refunded" means and would like to see "Upwork forced to refund" but it doesn't change the essence.
In my opinion, if the client is a scammer, then he should be banned. The client is alive, active, there are no questions for him from Upwork. Does that mean he paid for everything. No?
Okay, let's forget this client. It's still not clear with him. Another client scammed me a year ago. Upwork took advantage of my small oversight and rejected in protection. I don't agree but according to the ToS they can do that. Now, that client keeps posting and keeps deceiving others. I see his ads from time to time. "Proteced fraud" works flawlessly here. 🙂
Feb 22, 2023 01:46:47 PM by Jonathan L
I want to make sure I understand you correctly. In this case (and the one from a year ago), Upwork forced a refund because they believed that the Client's job (or other contemporary jobs by the Client) was fraudulent?
Feb 22, 2023 02:11:28 PM Edited Feb 22, 2023 02:22:57 PM by Mykola A
Client know how to get job for free. I won't share this trick (Upwork do nothing to close this backdor and it still works. Newbie scammers can read and use it), sorry.
Client started contract, used this trick and pay nothing at results. Upwork safety team reject me to cover all time tracked. I have made not so clear description of one of stages. It was reason. Yep, its a crazy, screenshots there, messages.. but as is. Client got free job, i lost time and done complicated job for free, all happy.
That client still alive (and continue to receive free jobs from freelancers?). Maybe this is not a real client, maybe one of Upwork team use it to resell jobs.. Maybe Upwork like large client's counter for advertising. I don't know.
Feb 22, 2023 02:24:22 PM by Jonathan L
I sympathize. It sucks that you had a fraudulent client. Remember, though, that Upwork gave up their cut/fees when they refunded/rejected the Client's payment.
Also, it seems that Upwork has made an internal policy decision that any Freelancer who work on jobs that turn out later to be scams/fraudulent must be considered (specifically regarding payment) as a co-conspirator of the scam/fraud.
Dec 29, 2023 01:58:27 PM by Douglas Mathew R
That's not fair. I'm Top Rated Plus freelancer and that freaking badge means nothing for support to recognize at least a minimum for the hard work done.
May 30, 2023 03:20:58 PM by Liudmyla T
Thank you for sharing your case. It seems, that I should try to find another platform for searching for a freelance job
Aug 10, 2023 01:32:00 PM by Will L
Mykola,
If you tell us, "Client know how to get job for free. I won't share this trick" how can we possibly offer any explanation for Upwork's resolution of your refund?
Aug 10, 2023 01:35:42 PM Edited Aug 10, 2023 01:46:29 PM by Mykola A
This is not related to case of topic. Check Jonathan's question. It was about other job (i faced with lot of scammer types a while working here).
All details about this case posted here. You can ask additional question if needed.