Upwork - Job Success Thread **title edited** - Page 3

jademilburn · ‎05-19-2015

I want Community Forum Moderators to add to this thread, and really listen to what is going on.

I, like many others am sure have the same story.

I used to love Odesk, and got many job interviews each week. I had all 5 star feedback, and glowing written references from my clients. Then Odesk made alot of changes and introduced Job Success rate. I was shocked that mine was 67%. That was until I looked at other discussions and heard of other people who had five star feedback, lots of good references and yet had a very low job success rate.

This system is beyond unfair as

!)Upwork introduced new changes and a new feedback system. They should NOT include information that people believed was being entered anonymously, prior to the changes. The Job success rate includes information that clients did not think would be shown publicly. They left star feedback that would be shown publicly. You CANNOt use retroactive data for a new system.

2)Since the Job success rate has been started, I am now not getting invited to interview for ANY jobs, so how could I get my Job success rate, even if I tried?

You have made a very bad error with this.

Can every freelancer on this forum who wants to get rid of the job success rate feature, reply with 'Get rid', and lets see if they listen to us.

jordonbaade · ‎06-29-2015

Get rid of it.

Feedback Score is messed up too, mine dropped for no reason after a 5 star rating was added.

I just cancelled my memberships, and requested a refund, and I am dilligantly looking for new job boards to replace Upwork.

faheemkhan599 · ‎06-29-2015

we have been listening that JS includes many factor to calculate itselft.

If they believe their algorithm is working fine. Should n't the details of our JS should be shown on our profile as private section , so we can see the things really contributing to JS i.e. in detail . This might help them justify the system .

fedkirill · ‎06-30-2015

Get rid

jefframlee · ‎06-30-2015

I'll drink to that!

I think I've been registered since Dec 2014, but only started using the site regularly since March 2015. All my feedback from completed jobs are great!

However, I received my first job success score about 3 weeks ago. I had 75% for my first ever score! I blame it on 4 trouble clients I had at the beginning. Changing the job expectations upon hiring and expecting me to drop rates an initial agreement.

I was new and clueless, so I was like, "yeah right, see ye later sucker".

Guess I was the sucker for ending the contracts.

The funny thing is, I haven't had any trouble contracts since my last job success score, but the other day, when it refreshed, it was showing 64%!!

I heard that I will be suspended if I drop under 60%. Guess I have less than 2 weeks (next refresh) remaining on upwork.

pratikpatil7 · ‎07-03-2015

Get Rid of JS.

I have completed all jobs successfully with overall 4.96 star rating. And my JOB SUCCESS running between 60%~65%. Why?

Now i dont get single job from last 2 months. Considering leaving upwork.

"upwork says" Difficult clients don’t count against your job success. But who defines Difficult?

A pattern of contracts that end without feedback can reduce your score. Well I have one client who stopped giving me feedabck but he comes to me with more job.

Contracts without activity can lower your score. I have two contracts without any activity due to unavailability of project from client itself . And one day he cancelled one contract saying project has been cancelled.

Upwork says it will keep formula "SECRET" to some extent

NOTHING TO SAY.

heavenmade · ‎07-05-2015

I have never had a problem with Job Success rate I am always at 95% to 98% from the very beginning!

But after reading many other posts I think the JS should GO!

The 5 Star Rating is more than enough!!!!

kulpichev_slava · ‎07-06-2015

Get rid of Job Success. It's just pointless.

seamus136 · ‎07-08-2015

I agree. Job Success is flawed. It either needs to be fixed, or it needs to go.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-ongoing-work-and-other-serious-issues/td-p/9...

andrewmikhael · ‎07-09-2015

GET RID! Highly unfair as I have 50% when i've completed 7+ jobs but only two of which gave feedback. One gave me 5 stars and the other gave me 0 because our contract ended in a dispute. How is this in any way fair? I am not getting any job accepting due to this and is now a real struggle to get even a $10 job posting.. Please Fix.

prestonhunter · ‎07-10-2015

Sorry, everybody.

Whether it is the Job Score or some other mechanism, this concept is not going away.

Those who run Upwork have no interest in turning the site into a free-for-all on which anybody can do anthying. It's not going to be unregulated like CraigsList.

Upwork is heading in the opposite direction... Their intent seems to be ensuring the highest probability that a client has a positive experince and wants to to continue spending money here.

Those who run Upwork are not interested in conducting some kind of grand social experiment or in running a charity wherein everybody has the opportunity to become their best self. They want happy clients, and that means breaking some eggs to make an omelet.

The Job Score is one of their biggest eggs.

I've been raked over the coals myself by Upwork's automated algorithms. It hurts. But you need to understand this is not going away. Not here, anyway.

Other places may go for a more "open market" approach and will probably succeed in attracting certain types of jobs, clients and contractors.

But Upwork's direction seems clear. They will never be all things to everybody. But they will be lucrative for a certain segment of contractors who are willing to conform to their way of doing things.

heavenmade · ‎07-10-2015

Sorry, Preston and others

With respect I have to disagree on this one!

The 5 star rating system is more than enough if the client is not happy with the work! I think the client should have the backbone to say so to the freelancers face (i.e. In public feedback!). No need to give 5 stars to the freelancer and then stab the freelancer in the back on the private feedback! That's just not right!

Now let me tell you I am doing okay on my Job Success! My Job Success is 95%, 1,855 hours worked, 125 jobs and a 4.85 Star Rating. So I am not a victim of Job Success! Job Success is one a sided unfair system. Just for your information I am Top Rated and have been so from the very beginning!

I don't like the system even though I am Top Rated!!!!!!!!!

Job Success Kill IT

suznee · ‎07-10-2015

Ian,

I have to agree with you here. I did not think to much of things and even liked the idea of the job success. It stopped those who giving refunds to keep their 5 stars from showing a perfect score, but there is way to much weighed on private feedback. In fact a big chunk of the score is private feedback. It either needs to be re-evaluated or gotten rid of. It is hurting a lot of honest hard working freelancers.

I had a client I talked with long term about private feedback and he had not realized that answering lower then 9 or 10 on Would you recommend this freelancer would hurt their JS. He said to me and even ask me to point out in the forum that he had assumed giving a freelancer he worked with short term a 6 or 7 was good. As he really had nothing to base whether he would recommend them or not. If they had done a good job he thought that was a good score. He said the only time he would ever leave a 9 or 10 is if someone had been extremely exceptional and it had to have been someone he worked with long term. He left good feedback publically as he felt I did a good job, but he did not realize it might hurt my JS to leave a lower score that he thought was telling them I had done a good job for the work in the short time I had worked for him.

There are other clients just like him. He does not understand how the JS works. I don't feel I should be educating clients. Upwork should be, but it is not fair that they are hiring off a JS which they don't understand and they are scoring privately on a JS they don't understand if we don't have 9 or 10 will damage our score. Upwork needs to modify that scale. I would think the same thing that if someone did a good job then they should be a 6-10 but why should they be puished for doing a good job. Not everyone is exceptional.

iftikhar-ishaq · ‎07-11-2015

@Preston

"Only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches"

m_terrazas · ‎04-19-2016

Hello Preston,

As I see you are a person who has a great knowledge of the operation of the portal, I take the liberty to ask you for a clarification.
I guess because English is not my language, there are times I can not understand well the "Help".
Now I have a "hourly job" open, it has been standing a while and is supposed to return in about three weeks to send more work. I know that the customer is happy with what I've done so far but as the job remains open, I have no feedback of any kind.
In this case, would it be better to discuss with the client to close the job and hire me again when you start the next one? or not worth it.
I have been reading the help and comments on this post but I don't quite understand well what is the best option.

nadine08 · ‎07-10-2015

I'm new to UpWork and was luckily hired by an awesome contractor. I'm currently on my third week. Seeing all your posts scares me though.

There was one fixed price job that I applied and got hired. But we had a problem and the client's account got suspended. I was alarmed, and so I contacted customer support. I wanted to end the contract, but they told me to discuss everything with the client first. Unfortunately, she isn't responding here or on Skype. I decided to end the contract myself.

I'm really concerned now, I don't know if I did a mistake ending the contract.

prestonhunter · ‎07-11-2015

To be very clear about this: Upwork does not regard the star rating feedback system as very useful because it does not have a wide SPREAD.

Ratings are clustered around 5, with the vast majority of contractors having a score of 4.8 or above. Because there is so little spread, it makes it difficult for clients to distinguish between contractors.

Upwork likes the Job Score system because it has a wide SPREAD. It is designed to have a wide spread. It is designed to make some contractors stand out because they have high scores and it is designed to make other contractors look like less appealing prospects because they have lower job scores.

Upwork is not trying to create the world's fairest system for evaluating the quality of online contractors. They are trying to create a system which better helps clients choose contractors and result in client satisfaction.

suznee · ‎07-11-2015

@Preston H wrote:
To be very clear about this: Upwork does not regard the star rating feedback system as very useful because it does not have a wide SPREAD.

Ratings are clustered around 5, with the vast majority of contractors having a score of 4.8 or above. Because there is so little spread, it makes it difficult for clients to distinguish between contractors.

Upwork likes the Job Score system because it has a wide SPREAD. It is designed to have a wide spread. It is designed to make some contractors stand out because they have high scores and it is designed to make other contractors look like less appealing prospects because they have lower job scores.

Upwork is not trying to create the world's fairest system for evaluating the quality of online contractors. They are trying to create a system which better helps clients choose contractors and result in client satisfaction.

Preston,

I am not trying to be rude here, but you sound like the Upwork poster child with the way you promote it.. Your wording almost sounds like you work for them.

iftikhar-ishaq · ‎07-11-2015

@Suzanne N wrote:
@Preston H wrote:
To be very clear about this: Upwork does not regard the star rating feedback system as very useful because it does not have a wide SPREAD.

Ratings are clustered around 5, with the vast majority of contractors having a score of 4.8 or above. Because there is so little spread, it makes it difficult for clients to distinguish between contractors.

Upwork likes the Job Score system because it has a wide SPREAD. It is designed to have a wide spread. It is designed to make some contractors stand out because they have high scores and it is designed to make other contractors look like less appealing prospects because they have lower job scores.

Upwork is not trying to create the world's fairest system for evaluating the quality of online contractors. They are trying to create a system which better helps clients choose contractors and result in client satisfaction.
Preston,

I am not trying to be rude here, but you sound like the Upwork poster child with the way you promote it.. Your wording almost sounds like you work for them.

I think so just surprised that he never have any issue may be he is the luckiest man on this forum.

setumonroe · ‎07-11-2015

The speak in Preston's defense, everything he said was 100% correct. A score of 4.5* was actually bottom tier on the public feedback system. As to why he is always saying something positive re the platform, that I cannot answer. But at least he is stating facts.

On a different note, I think there should be an update to the JS score overnight, so lets keep our fingers and toes crossed.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----

heavenmade · ‎07-11-2015

I don't like the system even though I am Top Rated!!!!!!!!! Also if JS goes so does Top Rated!!!!!!!!! but i still want JS gone.....

muhmasood · ‎07-28-2015

@Preston H wrote:
To be very clear about this: Upwork does not regard the star rating feedback system as very useful because it does not have a wide SPREAD.

Ratings are clustered around 5, with the vast majority of contractors having a score of 4.8 or above. Because there is so little spread, it makes it difficult for clients to distinguish between contractors.

What about 10 stars 😛

if i say JS was a good new feature but if the system is not working and me or you or anyone without few people , i think they too dont know how is its working 😛 then why are they hurting people with this thing?

If you are not a top rated means no jobs for you and chances to be hired are less than 30 %... then do you think its working ?? maybe you say YES... but for me its not working because i am suffering this from last 2 1/2 months .

Top rated then back to 80 then again top rated then back to 83 or bla bla bla its really fun 😄

"One thing I know, that I know nothing. This is the source of my wisdom"

prestonhunter · ‎07-11-2015

Marga, you probably made a tactical error in ending the contract yourself, but if you don't make a habit of doing that, you should be fine. A single tactical error will not torpedo your job score. A pattern of errors will cause lasting problems.

klavina · ‎07-11-2015

lysis10 · ‎07-11-2015

Gunta, that's pretty awful. 25% drop from just that is harsh.

About a year ago, I had someone who (I think) was trying to blackmail me into working more for a rating. I don't know if I was reading it wrong or if he was serious. After I finished the gig, he said to me "Let me know when you can take the next gig so I can rate you." Hmmmm. The guy seemed OK and rated me well. I did the second gig, got my money and just let it go.

About 6 months later he auto-hired me without asking. By that time, I raised my rates way above what he was offering and I didn't want to bother, so I cancelled the gig. But, I just tried to be polite and said I was too busy. He said nothing to me. About 2 weeks after that he auto-hired me again. Cancellations hurt your Elance profile, so I was now annoyed. I cancelled yet again and told him that I charge $100 for an article. Never heard from him after that.

Anyway, there are those "out of our control" situations and it's frustrating.

st-leipzig · ‎07-11-2015

If the job is still open and the client hasn't given public/private feedback yet, it can't really be this particular job that lowered your score (unless by not submitting the work through the submit button you missed a deadline, but I haven't hurt of any such mechanism that immediately shoots into your JS score).

So possibly private feedback on those other small gigs?

I understand the frustration on what you titled "tactical error", but with the current system (which I doubt will change much), look at it as a lesson: have clients close projects and give feedback before talking about any further projects. A friendly message a la "Kindly close the contract for this project, and I am happy to work something out in regards to future rates" might have done the trick?

klavina · ‎07-11-2015

Sandra,

Yes, the deadline was missed. I submitted work before the deadline in the Workroom/Messages area, but didn't click that button. I asked the client twice if we can close the project: back in April and also this week. I've gotten no answer. It doesn't feel right to request payment before the final OK from the client.

Is Upwork so strict with the deadlines on milestones? Can milestone deadlines be changed without any penalty if the project takes longer (can they be changed by both client/freelancer?)?

I don't think it was one of the other projects. I've worked on 4 projects, the JS is down 1/4.

david_gregory · ‎07-11-2015

@Gunta K wrote:
Sandra,

Yes, the deadline was missed. I submitted work before the deadline in the Workroom/Messages area, but didn't click that button. I asked the client twice if we can close the project: back in April and also this week. I've gotten no answer. It doesn't feel right to request payment before the final OK from the client.

Is Upwork so strict with the deadlines on milestones? Can milestone deadlines be changed without any penalty if the project takes longer (can they be changed by both client/freelancer?)? I'm often waiting for feedback from clients and it can push the final delivery date to a later time, I've never ever had to change this on Elance.

Missed deadlines do not affect the JS score unless the client is upset about the missed deadline and rates you accordingly. Upwork does not track missed deadlines or take them into account when calculating your JS score.

The only way missed deadlines will affect you is if the client rates you negatively when the job ends because you missed the deadline.

a_kazleva · ‎07-11-2015

Gunta,

Clicking the submit button will not lower the JS.

Don’t click the end button as it might have a negative effect on your JS. Let the client do that.

If this contract is still open then this has not caused the drop of your JS. Only closed contracts are included in the calculation.

Edited to add:

Sorry Sandra, you were faster 😄

Missing the deadlines (meaning not clicking the submit button) has no impact on your JS. The only explanation would be poor private feedback.

Read some of the discussion on this forum for the calculation of the JS, they might be helpful.

prestonhunter · ‎07-11-2015

re: "I think so just surprised that he never have any issue may be he is the luckiest man on this forum."

I appreciate all the comments here. It is understandable that some people may have questions, and I certainly don't take any offense or take anything said here personally.

Luck has nothing to do with it. I spend a massive amount of time studying how Upwork works.

Almost from the beginning of my being here... I study, probe, test theories, mostly right here in the forum.

I had my account put on hold (also known as being under review or being suspended) twice in a row right after I started working on the platform. Hardly "lucky." If I have some numbers that look good right now, I can assure you it is not by accident or due to luck.

cdl0621 · ‎07-26-2015

Same here, my job succes rate fell randomly. 😞 Despite of my 5 star rating.

leeannfullard · ‎07-28-2015

I agree. It's terrible. I have 5 stars with a 75% Job success rate as some clients don't think twice about actually filling in the right stuff or even bother to leave feedback. That shouldn't impact us

c7a54ec7 · ‎08-10-2015

I'm new here and I won't touch any new clients either. Look at my ratings from customers and then look at my js. Last month, after being on the phone nor accepting their scripted response, they sent the matter to Tech support and told me my issue is due to a bug. A couple of weeks ago, I got hired, the client insisted all communication be kept outside of upwork and wanted me to the complete the job BEFORE agreeing to hire, after he hired me. I flagged it, upwork even told me they were "on my side ".. The client canceled, and now my j's dived from 71 to 63. I'm waiting a month before formally writing to the fcc and a few other agencies.

c7a54ec7 · ‎08-10-2015

FTC sorry

c7a54ec7 · ‎08-10-2015

Everyone here works hard.
Furthermore, you're only proving a point that it takes "knowing the system " in order to "play the system." How is that an example of why to uphold a faulty feature? Even Upwork team members told me personally that it's a bad feature, plain and simple.

cjemery · ‎03-08-2016

@Mark T wrote:
Everyone here works hard.
Furthermore, you're only proving a point that it takes "knowing the system " in order to "play the system." How is that an example of why to uphold a faulty feature? Even Upwork team members told me personally that it's a bad feature, plain and simple.

And the irony is that this JSS was supposedly implemented in order to prevent people from "playing the system."

c7a54ec7 · ‎08-10-2015

Lee-Ann F.. Call in, request that your profile be reviewed by Tech support to be analyzed specifically in regards to your js for "bugs".. I'm wondering if I'm the only one.

boshoffirene · ‎08-10-2015

I posted this under another thread a while ago, and thought it might be pertinent here as well.

ANY assessment, without the human factor involved, is flawed.

Let me elaborate on this, but first, let me tell you why I am qualified to state this.

I am a qualified assessor and moderator. Let me explain what this means:

An assessor is someone who is competent and has the needed qualifications, to assess someone's job (on an individual basis), using certain drawn up criteria, which is 100% transparent to the assessee. This means the assessee knows EXACTLY what he or she is being assessed on regarding his/her job performance.

In the event that there is a dispute, and the assessee feels he/she has been unfairly treated, the services of the moderator is called in.

A moderator is a person who is trained and qualified, with the necessary documentation, to look at the appraisal done by the assessor, and, in conjunction with both parties and based on the evidence provided, either to acknowledge the validity of the assessee's claim, or agree with the assessor regarding the appraisal of the said individual's job performance. All this is done using criteria which at all times is open and transparent.

There may be various reasons why the initial assessment could be deemed an untrue reflection, and only the human input could ever validate that. No information put into any algorithm could ever do that.

p_terry · ‎09-25-2015

Jade, I have the exact same problem as you, down to the scores.

I even noticed that Upwork has taken the 4.88% feedback score off of my profile this morning, so it highights the 67% job success rate, which came down around 30% in the recent months.

This seems wrong and excessive to me. I noticed there is a 27 minute wait on chat, so it seems others' are experiencing this?

mahfuz_ifo · ‎10-07-2015

Same to me I loved oDesk, My online carrear are destryed now by UpWork my feedback was 4.88 now my job success is 45% . I complete my every project suuccessfuly client was happy. Now I bid every job and denied where I should get invitation as my skill and experiences.

roshangn88 · ‎10-19-2015

With a Star rating of 4.8. I am at 77%. I now consider moving away from Upwork. The JS algorithm is not good. I am personally in touch with almost all my old clients except for those who are actually not very active on Upwork. I am not sure who are the clients giving me negative private feedback. But, this whol feedback system has made Upwork a mess.

Bye Upwork.