Upwork - Job Success Thread **title edited** - Page 34

jademilburn · ‎05-19-2015

I want Community Forum Moderators to add to this thread, and really listen to what is going on.

I, like many others am sure have the same story.

I used to love Odesk, and got many job interviews each week. I had all 5 star feedback, and glowing written references from my clients. Then Odesk made alot of changes and introduced Job Success rate. I was shocked that mine was 67%. That was until I looked at other discussions and heard of other people who had five star feedback, lots of good references and yet had a very low job success rate.

This system is beyond unfair as

!)Upwork introduced new changes and a new feedback system. They should NOT include information that people believed was being entered anonymously, prior to the changes. The Job success rate includes information that clients did not think would be shown publicly. They left star feedback that would be shown publicly. You CANNOt use retroactive data for a new system.

2)Since the Job success rate has been started, I am now not getting invited to interview for ANY jobs, so how could I get my Job success rate, even if I tried?

You have made a very bad error with this.

Can every freelancer on this forum who wants to get rid of the job success rate feature, reply with 'Get rid', and lets see if they listen to us.

meckarov · ‎04-03-2017

Why mu job succes score go down on 71?

All my job is correct with 5 star feedback only one job I have with 4.4 feedback.

sabrinete · ‎04-03-2017

My JSS dropped from 86 % to 81 % today although my latest 9 jobs have all a 5 stars feedback and were completed succesfully, my clients were happy with my work.

I just don't understand ! I'm working so hard to improve my JSS but it's only dropping, I feel like my hard work is not recompensated here and I'm not getting the same response from proposals as before

it's so frustrating !

What should I do ? what did I do wrong ?

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Hello Sabrina,

The only reason I can see for this is some of your old positive feedback has dropped off in the JSS calculation therefore lowering it a little, or people are leaving somewhat bad private feedback. Keep getting good feedback and it should go back up.

blumental · ‎04-04-2017

I had no JSS until yesterday.
Only one of my clients leave a feedback, other did not do that so I closed their contracts by myself.
Is this normal that my JSS is only 50 %?
Kind regards,
Alex.

kochubei_valeria · ‎04-04-2017

Hi Alexei,

It looks like a few of your contracts had poor outcomes or were completed with no feedback from the clients. Please, check out this help article to learn more about how Job Success score is calculated and how you can increase it.

~ Valeria

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Hi Alexei,

In additon to what Valeria said, I'd like to make a suggestion.

The reason for your JSS being low is due to you only having 1 with feedback, and where you closed out 2 that have no feedback, it is bringing it down on you.

My suggestion is to not close jobs and allow clients to do so instead so they leave feedback first. I normally ask politely, only once though, at the end of a job, "Thank you and I look forward to working with you again. If all is satisfactory, I would appreciate if you could leave me good feedback. I would be happy to leave it for you as well, and It was a pleasure working with you." Perhaps you could do this with the ones that you closed out already if those jobs went well as adding positive feedbacks will help bring it up for you.

This never fails me and I always get feedback from my clients. In this way, it will help build your JSS up by getting good feedback if the client was happy.

petra_r · ‎04-04-2017

Amanda F wrote: I normally ask politely, only once though, at the end of a job, "Thank you and I look forward to working with you again. If all is satisfactory, if you leave good feedback, I will certainly do the same for you.

Ouch. I have never, never will, never would ask a client to leave good feedback or promise to leave good feedback in return. That's borderline feedback manipulation.

In fact I have never and never will mention feedback AT ALL. I just encourage the client to end the contract. No mention of feedback. Not a word.

allergywriter · ‎04-04-2017

I kinda tell them it was a pleasure to work with them and ask them to close the contract. I include somthing like "if you were pleased with my services, please take a moment to provide feedback. If there is some area in which I can improve, please drop me a note and let me know. I'm always looking for ways to improve"

But I don't ever contact them again about feedback or closing contracts. I hate to be a pest.

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Well my 99% JSS is there for a reason. I don't feel it is manipulating. If I did a good job for someone and they don't know about feedback, which in some cases clients don't(especially new clients on the site), I can't see any harm in politely asking them if they'd leave feedback. I never ask for 5 star feedback, so it isn't manipulating, it's asking nicely if they'd mind rating me on my job well done. I don't say anymore I will leave them good feedback, but I did at first when I was a starter on elance. I still worked hard for everything I did and deserved the feedback I had gotten. Are you saying I didn't just because I asked for feedback? Give me break. Clients won't be manipulated like that, they either like your work or didn't and don't care about their feedback. I used to say this to show I appreciated them too.

And btw, I have lots of repeat clients, so I feel you're all being a little rude attacking me for a suggestion to someone starting off on here who obviously didn't get feedback from some jobs he closed, probably because the client didn't realize. I have done 146 jobs with great feedback. lol So is the forums I suppose. I think I'll stay away from them for a bit, was just trying to help him with building the feedback a little. This forum is ridiculous sometimes.

petra_r · ‎04-04-2017

@Amanda F wrote:
1) Well my 99% JSS is there for a reason.
I don't feel it is manipulating. If I did a good job for someone and they don't know about feedback, which in some cases clients don't,
2) I can't see any harm in politely asking them if they'd leave feedback.

3) And btw, I have lots of repeat clients, so I feel you're all being a little rude attacking me for a suggestion to someone starting off on here. I have done 146 jobs with great feedback. lol

I am not attacking you. I am offering an opinion.

1) And btw, my 100% JSS is "there for a reason" too, and it is not because I ask clients for good feedback. Clients can not NOT leave feedback when they close a job, so as long as they close the job they don't need to be reminded to leave feedback, because they have no choice but to do so.

2) You said you ask for GOOD feedback and offer to leave GOOD feedback in return.

3) Not sure what that has to do with it? So have I.

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

LOL you are entitled to your opinion. My clients leave feedback because they love my work obviously. I don't manipulate them in anyway for 5 stars and good private feedback just because I ask them if they would like to leave feedback cause you are basically saying that I am making them do it and therefore making my JSS better. They still sometimes leave a 4.5 or whatever they want. I don't see a problem with asking if they are happy with everything at the end of the job. If they don't want to leave feedback, it's obviously still up to them.

Either way, asking for feedback when someone hasn't given it is far better than leaving it without feedback, especially when you have only a few jobs and it is better not to close it without feedback or leave it sitting in your jobs forever.

petra_r · ‎04-04-2017

@Amanda F wrote:

Either way, asking for feedback when someone hasn't given it is far better than leaving it without feedback, especially when you have only a few jobs and it is better not to close it without feedback or leave it sitting in your jobs forever.

Asking for feedback is something that could be argued over. Asking for GOOD feedback and offering GOOD feedback in return is questionable at best.

I don't need to manipulate my clients into the feedback they leave, and as a client I find it deeply irritating when people ask for good feedback. It's that kind of thing that landed us with the JSS in the first place, and countless clients complained about again and again.

OF COURSE there is nothing wrong with asking if the client is happy and everything is OK, but in my opinion and experience there is never any need to even mention feedback, let alone ask for GOOD feedback and trade it for return GOOD feedback.

If a client ends the contract they WILL leave feedback, they have no choice, and I'd much rather know that all of mine is completely unprompted and not manipulated.

ravi_iitian · ‎04-04-2017

@Amanda F wrote:
Hi Alexei,

My suggestion is to not close jobs and allow clients to do so instead so they leave feedback first. I normally ask politely, only once though, at the end of a job, "Thank you and I look forward to working with you again. If all is satisfactory, if you leave good feedback, I will certainly do the same for you. It was a pleasure working with you."

Amanda,

The colored part is not okay.

"Certa bonum certamen"

allergywriter · ‎04-04-2017

I thought you can't even see client's feedback until you leave feedback yourself.

Isn't that the way it works?

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Yes Cheryl, you can't see any feedback. There isn't a problem with asking someone for feedback though to help grow your profile. People can express in their feedback whatever they want.

allergywriter · ‎04-04-2017

Exactly! that's why I politely ask for feedback "if you are pleased, take a moment to leave feedback" but I don't ever bother them with it again. It's kinda standard like, "if I may be of assistance to you in the future" wording.

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Yeah in my suggestion to the freelancer, I said to ask only once politely. If they don't leave it, that's all you can do. I still have contracts where I didn't have feedback. I like Upworks system better in terms of feedback. It was much harder to get feedback on elance because the system of clients leaving feedback first wasn't there and they didn't hide it either until both parties left it. It allows you to have a chance in getting feedback from the client and for both parties to give accurate feedback on each other.

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

Like I said, I used to say this part you have colored as a starter, to show clients I appreciated them too and that I'd be happy to also leave them feedback, and I no longer say that now. Either way, it's their choice what they do. If they didn't like your work, they won't care what you leave them and will still give you the feedback you deserve. So I don't at all see how it is in anyway manipulating. If you go above and beyond for someone they'll give you stellar feedback, and if you didn't do well, they'll say you did bad so others can know. No one is perfect and people know that. They aren't going to magically give you 5 stars because you say I'll be happy to leave you feedback too. It's important to give accurate feedback on both the client and freelancers side.

petra_r · ‎04-04-2017

@Amanda F wrote:
Like I said, I used to say this part you have colored as a starter, and I no longer say that now.

Oh really?

@So how come you wrote:

" I normally ask politely, only once though, at the end of a job, "Thank you and I look forward to working with you again. If all is satisfactory, if you leave good feedback, I will certainly do the same for you."

which is different from what you originally wrote as well.

afifield · ‎04-04-2017

That's what I was suggesting to the freelancer to do as a starter. Perhaps I should have worded it "Normally this is what I would have done" and left out the word good for you. LOL. I also said "if everything is satisfactory". If you want to break down my sentences, then I will as well. If everything is satsfactory means if they were happy with it they can CHOSE to leave me feedback or not and I will do the same. So what's the issue? It's entirely their choice if the feedback is good or not, whether they leave feedback or not. Why? Because it is based on the job I did for them and if they were happy with it. If they were happy and I know they were, why not ask for good feedback?

It's not that big of a deal to ask that either way and say you'll leave them feedback too. I can't see how you think it is. They either will give you terrible feedback because they didn't like your work, give you average feedback because you did "ok" or give you stellar feedback because you did great. There isn't a way to manipulate it. There were times on when I first started on elance I said I will give you feedback too and they still gave me a 4.5 because it's what I deserved or they thought it was what I deserved. Feedback is an opinion nonetheless on how someone did and nothing can change that. Asking for good feedback is not manipulating if they were happy with everything and said so, and it doesn't necessarily mean you'd get a perfect 5 stars if there was something they didn't like. They can also give private feedback if they didn't like something. It is still 100% a choice, so this conversation is more than silly.

I am done with the forums and trying to help anyone or make suggestions. It just literally leads to people breaking your every word down and wastes so much time.

moti01 · ‎04-06-2017

I agree, me too I had a hard time with forums trying to break down your words and make it sound everything is your fault, I have seen some, but also others do give constructive criticism which is always welcomed, but I see what you mean.

I never understood how the JSS works, trust me I tried hard to understand and what people say in the forums, sometimes makes sense and other times confuses you more, but it is what it is. I just think, looking at the large number of people complaining about the JSS, it is no longer possible for upwork to ignore and it might eventually affect the income of both the freelancers and upwork, maybe for now upwork has cash cows who have solid clientele and even if their JSS down, they will still be ok. We will just have to see what the future holds, maybe upwork will find a way to deal with this issue, I hope. In the meantime, work continues, and life goes on. 🙂

PS. I also do not understand, why would a client leave excellent feedback (5 stars) in public and screw you in private? That is very strange to me and upwork should also pay attention to that, (any credibility in the double standard?)

jcullinan · ‎04-04-2017

@Amanda F wrote:
"Thank you and I look forward to working with you again. If all is satisfactory, if you leave good feedback, I will certainly do the same for you. It was a pleasure working with you."

Ummm... you can't see their feedback before you leave yours, and the client will know this as it's part of the feedback instructions. Promising action "IF you leave good feedback..." is really not something one should EVER say to clients. It's right up there with clients promising to leave you five stars if you work for cheap.

sabrinete · ‎04-04-2017

My JSS dropped from 86 % to 81 % today although my latest 9 jobs have all a 5 stars feedback and were completed succesfully, my clients were happy with my work.

I just don't understand ! I'm working so hard to improve my JSS but it's only dropping, I feel like my hard work is not recompensated here and I'm not getting the same response from proposals as before

it's so frustrating !

What should I do ? what did I do worng ?

kochubei_valeria · ‎04-04-2017

Hi Sabrina,

Please note that not only public feedback in your Work History affects your JSS but also private feedback, including private feedback clients provide on contracts where no money was paid or a full refund was issued. Make sure you are able to complete the contract before you accept the offer and deliver great results on contracts you do accept and you'll be able to raise your JSS.

~ Valeria

fhade · ‎04-06-2017

Try using our JSS and secret feedback in your daily life and you will realise its a great system.

It works in a similar way to how most of us were punished by our parent for getting perfect grades in school, but our parents won't tell us why we got punished.

Disclaimer : Upwork takes no responsibilty for any injury or loss of life due to appication of JSS or secret feedback outside of Upwork.

erinv · ‎04-06-2017

Hello Jade,

Thank you for your post, which is thoughtful and well written. A similar thing happened to me (job success dropped overnight for no real reason—had no bad feedback, not even recent jobs finished. I had an open contract with a client in good stead, that was all).

I too have been with Upwork since before elance merged with oDesk (2010, I think I started), and it's been nothing but bad news for freelancers since then. I don't think tagging our posts will make much of a difference to their policy—I'm not sure anyone with authority will read them (and if you are reading this, CEO who makes bank off my hard work, please chime in)—but I'm writing you back in support. They even edited the title of your thread so it's harder to find here. I waited several days, so I wouldn't write back in anger, and it was hard to find this discussion.

Upwork made over $11 billion in profits in 2015. They're a global corporation with shareholders, and we are their monetary value. Usurious fees of 20% on new contracts, a skewed new rating system that punishes freelancers for having open contracts (I suspect this is to force people to close existing contracts that have a lower fee rate, and open new ones at the **Edited for Community Guidelines** 20% level again), a system where you have to pay to keep your own earnings private, and mediocre technical and customer support at best; it's clear whom Upwork is serving.

GET RID OF

VladimirG · ‎04-07-2017

@Erin V wrote:

Usurious fees of 20% on new contracts, a skewed new rating system that punishes freelancers for having open contracts (I suspect this is to force people to close existing contracts that have a lower fee rate, and open new ones at the **Edited for Community Guidelines** 20% level again) ...

Hi Erin,

Please note the service fee is applied based on lifetime billing with a client, not per contract, which means the same or lower fee will be applied when a new contract is created with the same client.

~ Vladimir

petra_r · ‎04-07-2017

@Erin V wrote:

Upwork made over $11 billion in profits in 2015.

Do you think posting completely fabricated lies strengthens your argument in any way?

according to Upwork it made no profit in 2015

Furthermore, the 20% fee has nothing to do with the JSS anyway, and is per client, not per contract.

moti01 · ‎04-07-2017

I don't know how much profit upwork made but according to this article which is dated may 2015, it made a revenue of 1 Billion and of course, revenue doesn't mean profit but saying no profit was made is not accurate either.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elainepofeldt/2015/05/05/elance-odesk-becomes-upwork-today-odesk-brand-...

I personally find 20% fees very reasonable and freelancers can add that their pricing to begin with. It seems JSS is bothering so many people, I am just glad my JSS start to go up, all I did was one contract with a very happy client, so my advice to all, is just keep doing good work and give your clients the best service possible and don't worry too much about what you can not change and focus on what you can change.

petra_r · ‎04-07-2017

@Abdulmoti S wrote:
I don't know how much profit upwork made but according to this article which is dated may 2015, it made a revenue of 1 Billion and of course, revenue doesn't mean profit but saying no profit was made is not accurate either.

According to Upwork's very own CEO Upwork had not yet turned profitable as of mid 2016. So what I said is as accurate as what Upwork's CEO said himself.

And the post I reacted to claimed "Upwork made over $11 billion in profits in 2015."

Clearly there is just a tiny difference between $1 Billion Freelancer Revenue and $11 Billion PROFIT, bearing in mind that the vast majority of the turnover goes straight to the freelancers.

moti01 · ‎04-07-2017

I see what you are saying, that is why I said revenue doesn't mean profit. And yes clearly there is a difference between 1 Billion and 11 billion,

Also when revenue for upwork is mentioned, I am guessing the turnover for the freelancers are not included and only the revenue out of the 20% and membership fees are what they referring to (I am guessing, I am not claiming it is). Anyways, they must be making a profit, otherwise what is the point of doing business if there is no profit to be made?

But anyways, I agree with you the JSS has nothing to do with profit made, I am sensing the original poster is just expressing frustration of the rapid drop of the JSS and many seems to feel the same and I also sense they feel that upwork seems to focus on clients point of view and ignore the concerns of the freelancers who are the actual producers of the work and the revenue, I tend to agree with them to a certain extent but not totally. Either way, it is what it is.. life goes on.

petra_r · ‎04-07-2017

@Abdulmoti S wrote:
I see what you are saying, that is why I said revenue doesn't mean profit. And yes clearly there is a difference between 1 Billion and 11 billion,

1) Also when revenue for upwork is mentioned, I am guessing the turnover for the freelancers are not included and only the revenue out of the 20% and membership fees are what they referring to (I am guessing, I am not claiming it is).

2) Anyways, they must be making a profit, otherwise what is the point of doing business if there is no profit to be made?

1) The source you yourself used said "The move comes as the company pushes to build annual freelancer revenues on the platform from $1 billion today to $10 billion six years from now." So no, that is not the fee. that's what freelancers bill clients.

2) Ask Amazon for example, which has not yet turned a profit. Doesn't seem to stop them doing what they're doing.....

moti01 · ‎04-07-2017

@Petra R wrote:

2) Ask Amazon for example, which has not yet turned a profit. Doesn't seem to stop them doing what they're doing.....

About Amazon profit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/technology/amazon-earnings-profit.html?_r=0

petra_r · ‎04-07-2017

@Abdulmoti S wrote:
@Petra R wrote:

2) Ask Amazon for example, which has not yet turned a profit. Doesn't seem to stop them doing what they're doing.....
About Amazon profit:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/technology/amazon-earnings-profit.html?_r=0

OK, but for many, MANY years it was the posterchild for putting the priority on growth, not profit and the subject of a whole school of thought on the matter.

My point was that lack of profit NOT is not an indicator whether a company should be doing what it is doing, business isn't as simple as that.

moti01 · ‎04-07-2017

I got your point, and it is true, profit alone is not the aim of businesses, many actually put the priority on growth and long-term survival and yes the matter is much more complicated than that.

p640 · ‎04-11-2017

Hello Upwork Community,

Hope you are doing great!

I'm a newbie here on Upwork & have received 5 stars feedback all most every jobs (1 is 3.9, so in Avg 4.72 ), have answered all job invitations within a short time and never had an account hold/refund. Yet, my JSS is an uncomfortable 63% !!!

Is it real? It's really very frustrating and disheartening. I can't believe this since I've been working so hard (final output is double checked and reviewed by Client before submition). Even I've asked them " is there anything to improve my service?". All they said " Great, thank you."

I'd invite you to visit my profile "https://www.upwork.com/fl/shohel" and please advice/guide me.

How to improve my JSS?

Thank you for your time.
Kind Regards,
Shohel R.

jmlaidlaw · ‎04-11-2017

I see that you are offering transcription services. You also advertise yourself as being a "Native/Bilingual" English speaker. Clearly, your English skills, while strong, are not at a Native level. If your transcriptions are similar to your posting above and to the text within your Profile, they contain errors in spelling, diction, idiom, and punctuation.

If clients have hired you with the expectation that they will be receiving transcription that is in grammatically correct, well-punctuated, perfectly-spelled English (with homophones accurately sorted out), then they have probably been disappointed.

satamony · ‎04-17-2017

my job success score reduced to 87% while all my ratings are 5.00 !!

I don't know what's wrong, I finished all my jobs with perfect rating except for one job which I completed but the client did not write feedback or rating, my score keeps dropping and I don't know why, can you help?

satamony · ‎04-17-2017

Update: during my worktime at upwork, I had two clients who canceled their contract after hiring me because they no longer needed the job done and IT WAS NOT MY FAULT IN ANY WAY, now I've learned from other members who had the same problem that sometimes canceled contracted could affect my JSS in a bad way.. Please anyone tell me how could it be possible that the client cancels the contract and I PAY THE PRICE !!!

saiful_azad · ‎04-18-2017

Dear Upwork community

I have visited my profile today and seen that my job success has been decreased. Last month I had taken a contract but for being sick I can not complete it. But for that, I had not charged any payment from my client. Before the contract, my JSS was 87% but after contract, it went down to 67%. Is there any think I have done wrong in Upwork policies?

If so please kindly give some suggestion.