Would you be suspicious of a freelancer with 25 pages of completed jobs in the last 4 months?

[kbadeau]

I just find it hard to believe that a single person could crank out that much work.

[the-right-writer]

Valeria, this doesn't answer my question. I am specifically asking if the freelancer does not inform the client that they are farming/subcontracting if it is a Terms violation. How is the client supposed to know if the freelancer doesn't tell them? I have to guide clients through the maze just to hire, you can't expect clients to know about subcontractors if they are not informed.

Are freelancers just "strongly encouraged" or is it a violation as has been stated repeatedly elsewhere. This needs to be straightened out now, and not swept under the moderator rug.

[feed_my_eyes]

I agree - I'd like a simple yes or no answer to the question, "is it a ToS violation if a freelancer subcontracts all or part of a fixed price project without getting the client's permission first?"

[PradeepH]

Hi Christine,

Yes, subcontracting all or part of fixed price contract without the client's permission is considered a TOS violation.

Thank you,

Pradeep

[kochubei_valeria]

Hi All,

Upwork TOS don't require the freelancer to proactively inform the client that they're planning to subcontract. However, it is best practice for the client and the freelancer to discuss any terms and arrangements before the contract starts, including whether the freelancer is planning to subcontract and whether the client disallows subcontracting on the contract, etc. Clear communication and transparency are important parts of the contract's success along with providing quality deliverables as agreed. If the client doesn't allow subcontracting, the freelancer shouldn't subcontract any part of the work.

[25005175]

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Valeria K wrote:

Upwork TOS don't require the freelancer to proactively inform the client that they're planning to subcontract. 

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Um, then what does the green text in this passage mean?

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Valeria K wrote:

If the client doesn't allow subcontracting, the freelancer shouldn't subcontract any part of the work.

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Agreed. But most Clients don't know that they agree to sub-contracting by default.

[the-right-writer]

So, who are we supposed to believe?

[25005175]

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Jeanne H wrote:

So, who are we supposed to believe?

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Amazingly, Arjay, Pradeep and Valeria did not contradict each other in this thread. All say that sub-contracting without Client approval is a violation. The seeming incongruency is a result of the deliveries, in which Valeria and Arjay also make statements on highly related issues in the same paragraph.

[the-right-writer]

Well, I must be an idiot because I am still seeing a contradiction, and a Catch-22 on  informing the client, or it's a violation.

[25005175]

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Jeanne H wrote:

Well, I must be an idiot because I am still seeing a contradiction, and a Catch-22 on  informing the client, or it's a violation.

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Well, the statements about informing the Client do contradict the ToS.

[m_terrazas]

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Valeria K wrote:

Hi Jeanne,

To reiterate, freelancers can subcontract on fixed-price contracts unless the client prohibits it. If a freelancer is planning to subcontract some tasks on a fixed-price contract to another freelancer, we strongly encourage them to share that with the client to maintain trust and transparency.

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Reading the ToS, which I can't fully understand (Spanish with mediocre English), I realize that nothing is clear, so I support Upwork declaring yes or no in this thread.
Also, how does the client choose to prohibit or approve the subcontracting? Is there a properly explained button to accept or deny it? Which option of the two is set "by default"?

As already stated, the "legality" is not clear, nor is it clear how the client knows that they are outsourcing or not.

[25005175]

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Maria T wrote:

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Also, how does the client choose to prohibit or approve the subcontracting? Is there a properly explained button to accept or deny it? Which option of the two is set "by default"?

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The default is APPROVED, according to the Optional Service Terms agreement part of the ToS. There is no button. The client, best as I can tell, has to submit in writing (and the FL must agree, in writing) to the Upwork legal team.

All of the relevant information is a bit scattered. I tried to consolidate it here: Hourly sub-contracting loophole? . It's possible that I missed something, so I ask everyone to check it out.

[m_terrazas]

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Jonathan L wrote:

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Maria T wrote:

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Also, how does the client choose to prohibit or approve the subcontracting? Is there a properly explained button to accept or deny it? Which option of the two is set "by default"?

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The default is APPROVED, according to the Optional Service Terms agreement part of the ToS. There is no button. The client, best as I can tell, has to submit in writing (and the FL must agree, in writing) to the Upwork legal team.

All of the relevant information is a bit scattered. I tried to consolidate it here: Hourly sub-contracting loophole? . It's possible that I missed something, so I ask everyone to check it out.

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I thought I understood that, but I couldn't believe it, so I thought I was mistranslating it somehow.
So if a client does not want subcontracting, he has to take the trouble to write a letter and also involve the freelancer?
This is really absurd.

[verinah]

Good to know.

[tlsanders]

Not necessarily. Some jobs in some fields literally take 15 minutes. Some jobs linger around for months after they're completed before the freelancer or client decides to actually close the job. It could be that the freelancer has been on the platform for years and in the past few months has started cleaning up all those old, open contracts. You may want to take a look at the start dates on those contracts to get a better idea of what was really happening.

[kbadeau]

It's my field, so I know what kind of jobs take 15 minutes and what don't. I'm not going to flag the person or do anything further; I just wondered if I should say anything to my client who hired me after hiring that person. Interestingly, the person also has a low 80s JSS, yet has nothing but 5 star reviews visible unless you dig deeper.

Anyway, not my circus, not my monkeys... another day, another dollar for me.

[2c238eb8]

The date when the job was completed is the date the contract ended. In some cases, the projects have been completed over four months ago. There is a possibility that many contracts ended at the same time, but were completed at a later date. You can easily confirm this by looking at the start date and the amount.

[4f3ccc94]

No dear.

[wlyonsatl]

Not if the typical project for the freelancer was very short-term. If a freelancer typically did project that only take a couple of hours to complete, I would think they haven't been very busy over the past 4 months.