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Loose Money in Upwork

7bd0d548
Community Leader
Ilham B Member Since: Jul 26, 2016
1 of 29

I recently hired a fake or unprofessional freelancer.

 

He was charging for doing something out of our work instruction. Eventhough if he did work according to our instruction, he ended up never giving the work nor proof of his works. I've been asking for his work evidence since 4 weeks which has passed by.

 

On the other hand, Upwork has time limited of 4 weeks for dispute. In total, we lost money amounted charged $150 (on $4/hr rate). I can't imagine if he was charging at a much higher rate.

 

So, I personally would want to pay higher to someone who has a unique skill/talent that I need as well as professional. But if he does not have any of that, why would a client pays these guys higher ?

 

Why would a client pays a higher ammount on this platform to a replacedable freelancer where/whom you can pay to in a lower amount ? (asume SAME QUALITY!).

 

p.s

Do NOT correlate PRICE with QUALITY in this discussion !, because it is NOT correlated at all what so ever ! 

 

It's more about correlation in beetween of PRICE with UNIQUENESS !.

 

So I hope upwork find more freelancers whom are tagged as unique to increase the platform's UX and income !

 

 

 

 

 

 

g_vasilevski
Moderator
Goran V Moderator Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
2 of 29

Hi Ilham,

 

I'm sorry to hear about the bad experience you've had. Could you please click on my name and share more details (contract title or freelancer name) with me via PM so that I can assist you further? Thank you.


Untitled
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
3 of 29

Ilham B wrote:

I recently hired a fake or unprofessional freelancer.


Again.....

 


Ilham B wrote:

(on $4/hr rate). 


There's your answer.

 


Ilham B wrote:

Eventhough if he did work according to our instruction, he ended up never giving the work nor proof of his works. I've been asking for his work evidence since 4 weeks which has passed by.


Your "work evidence" is the freelancer's work diary.

 


Ilham B wrote:

On the other hand, Upwork has time limited of 4 weeks for dispute.


On an hourly contract, you have 5 days to dispute, and you can't dispute any deliverables (or lack thereof) at all. Only if the hours were tracked correctly or not. You pay for the freelancer's time, not a deliverable.



prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
4 of 29

re: "But if he does not have any of that, why would a client pays these guys higher? Why would a client pays a higher amount on this platform to a replacedable freelancer where/whom you can pay to in a lower amount?"

 

This is a great question. On Upwork, freelancers are available at a wide range of skill levels and pay levels. It IS possible to hire freelancers at low rates to do impressive work. But generally speaking, higher-skilled freelancers will require higher pay in order to hire them. Many clients prefer to hire higher-skilled/higher-paid freelancers in order to ensure that they get work done at the level of quality they need.

 

At lower rates, a client may be searching for a "diamond in the rough." This means that lower-paid/higher-skilled freelancers ARE available, but they are harder to find.

 

For example, if you want an excellent blog writer specializing in articles about dogs, you may be able to find one who will work for $5/hour. But you may need to hire 10 different freelancers in order to find that person.

 

If you need 100 or more different articles, then it may be worthwhile to hire 10 different freelancers to write one article each, and then choose the best one to stay on and write all 100 articles. This way you will have been able to compare 10 different freelancers in order to find the one who provides the best value/quality/price combination.

 

But: If you only need ONE article written and if your budget is limited... It doesn't make sense to hire 10 different writers. You could hire the best writer that you can afford. OR you can hire very inexpensive writers in a serial manner. The thing you can NOT do is hire a very low-rate freelancer and assume that her results will be usable. If you hire using very low rates you simply must be willing to pay for work that you can't use, and then hire the next person on the list, and hire the next person on the list, etc., until you obtain usable results. It is NOT worth your time as a client to mentor and teach low-skilled freelancers until they develop their skills to level that will be sufficient to meet your needs.

7bd0d548
Community Leader
Ilham B Member Since: Jul 26, 2016
5 of 29
I don't agree to all your guys theory. We can still hire a very expensive freelancer with low quality in Upwork. you will end up just loose your money like I did toward the cheap freelancer.

Upwork should eliminate all unprofessional or fake freelancers what's so ever so clients does not loose money at all.

So I always chose to hire many and cheap so if I am unlucky get a bad freelancer I won't loose as much.
prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
6 of 29

re: "I don't agree to all your guys theory. We can still hire a very expensive freelancer with low quality in Upwork."

 

You are absolutely correct.

It IS possible to hire a very expensive freelancer who provides low quality work.

 

I don't think anybody in this thread has said otherwise.

 

re: "you will end up just loose your money like I did toward the cheap freelancer."

 

Yes, that is possible.

 

Upwork does not guarantee outcomes.

 

Upwork provides a service through which clients can find, hire and pay freelancers.

 

We know that very-low-pay freelancers are more likely to provide low quality work. But it IS possible to find very-low-pay freelancers who provide quality work, and it IS possible to provide high-pay freelancers that provide low-quality work. These are simply less likely. This is the same everywhere.

 

re: "Upwork should eliminate all unprofessional or fake freelancers... so clients does not loose money at all."

 

It would be great if Upwork did that. How do you suggest Upwork does that?

7bd0d548
Community Leader
Ilham B Member Since: Jul 26, 2016
7 of 29
Upwork policy tells you pay for work not for time.

If they work then there's a deliverable.

You can charge in Upwork while spending time playing online games, then Upwork policy will refund that time !
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
8 of 29

Ilham B wrote:
Upwork policy tells you pay for work not for time.

Not with hourly contracts. Please do read the terms of service, where it is clearly explained to you in nice and simple terms. As long as the time was spent working on your project, had meaningful work memos and the activity levels were OK, you can't win a dispute. You can also only dispute the previous week.

 

Ilham B wrote:
So I always chose to hire many and cheap 

Exactly. And you are constantly having trouble.
Q.E.D

7bd0d548
Community Leader
Ilham B Member Since: Jul 26, 2016
9 of 29

'Not with hourly contracts. Please do read the terms of service, where it is clearly explained to you in nice and simple terms. As long as the time was spent working on your project, had meaningful work memos and the activity levels were OK, you can't win a dispute. You can also only dispute the previous week."

==>

Either you are right or not, this is why many client will loose money because of this SOP.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**
 
This is how a fake freelancer abused your upwork's SOP :
Week 1 work very well
Week 2 charged diary without actually are working according to our instruction, so client ask him to deliver the work.
Week 3 he makes fakes promises, like will be back next week can't work because out of town, blabla bla bla etc (but they will still charge some little money at this week without even actually are working)
Week 4 He again said, sorry sir still not back, will be back next week. (but they will still charge some little money at this week without even actually are working)
Week 5 He said, ok I quit, So by this time client can no longer force refund for the week 2's work nor even the week 3's work, but client can only get the so little amount at week 4.
 
If you can't remove these type of freelancers from your platform, please at least let me knows how to avoid them.
 
Thanks
 
 
"Exactly. And you are constantly having trouble."
==>
Nope, that's where you're wrong when you persisted quality is correlated with price. 
I did have some bad experience with expensive freelancers but also I did have some good experience with cheap freelancers. So AGAIN, I say to you all, PRICE IS NEVER CORELATED WITH QUALITY.
 
So I loose money here NOT because of price issue !, but because upwork's poor algorithm which still needs to have some improvements !
 
 
 
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
10 of 29

Ilham wrote:
If you can't remove these type of freelancers from your platform, please at least let me knows how to avoid them.

Make better hiring decisions.

Manage your freelancers and your contracts better.


Accept that you get what you pay for. I know it's not what you want to hear because you hire at the very bottom of the barrell.

 

Ilham wrote:

Final Warning !


Warning? Or what? 
You don't get to boss people about in this forum. That may work with your cheap freelancers, it does not work here.

 

By the way.... You paid the freelancer $3 an hour (not $4 as you said, not that it matters, $3 and $4 is both bottom of the barrel). For android app development. The job post is worded in such a way that only a certain type of freelancer would consider applying. Professionals certainly won't.

 

Ilham B wrote:

I can pay low and have no issues !

That's not what your posting history (Or your client stats) would indicate. Lots of problems, really poor feedback...

 


Ilham B wrote:

try your self be a client and hire cheap vs expensive (but do it for so many times like I did, thousands hire or more).


No, you didn't hire "thousands". 546. All cheap

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