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steroids
Community Member

Chargeback Notification without dispute procedure, claims in chat and 5 star review 16 days later

6 july I received email from upwork with following message

 

Message about money refunding doesn't showed in upwork notifications or disputes.

Contract was successfuly completed 20-21 june. Client ends contract and give 5 stars review "excellent work, thanks".

 

Money refund request received 6 july only on email (16 days later, money was already in available and paid to card)

1. Why my money was stolen?

2. Now I can't get paid from upwork to card. Most insteresting now my upwork available balance is 280$. Client paid me 300$ (240 to me and 60 to upwork for protection). Now upwork waiting for 300 available to withdraw, not 240.

I spent time to project, complete the project, and earn -60$?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

**Edited forCommunity Guidelines**

11 REPLIES 11
steroids
Community Member

Ahahah all screenshots was removed. What forbidden was in the screenshot of client's review? There wasn't names, chat messages and so on.

steroids
Community Member

Here is the content of removed email screenshot:

Chargeback Notification

<forbidden info>
July 06, 2022 13:35
Hi <forbidden info>,
 
We are writing today to let you know that a payment made to your account has been reversed by your client’s bank.
 
This reversal (chargeback) is a result of your client contacting their bank and asking them to reverse the payment for the following transaction(s):
 
- Amount:$300.00
- Contract ID:<forbidden info>
- Client:<forbidden info>
- Fixed-Price ContractMilestone 1
- Contract Title:<forbidden info>
  
 
 
As a result, we do need the above amount returned to us.
 
As a first step to resolving this issue, you may wish to speak to your client about why they filed the chargeback, or ask them to contact us to discuss. 
 
We can try to help too, by submitting a rebuttal to your client’s bank on your behalf. If you’d like us to do that, timing is critical. Please reply to this email within 48 hours and attach proof of the work or deliverables you completed for the client. 
 
Keep in mind that while we are happy to submit this rebuttal for you, the client’s bank will have the final say and we have no control over the outcome.
 
In the meantime, you won’t be able to withdraw any funds until the amount above is returned to us. If funds are available in your Upwork account, we will pull the amount due from that balance. If not, let us know when you have enough funds in your Upwork account so that we can collect the past due amount. Once this amount is returned to us, you’ll be able to withdraw funds again.

We are sorry to have to take this step, but this matter is a result of your client going off platform and filing a dispute with their financial institution. 
 
Thanks in advance for your assistance and please let me know if you have any questions. 
 
Regards,
 

<forbidden info>
<forbidden info>

It's up to the client's bank at this point. Like they said, Upwork can submit a rebuttal on your behalf, but it's highly unlikely the bank will take your side over their account holder's and so you aren't ever going to get your money and you have to pay Upwork back because you already withdrew it. Sorry. Other than freelancers using the time tracker for hourly contracts, Upwork offers no protection against this happening.

There really is no 'protection' in the VAST majority of the cases where freelancers don't get paid, which are these 'chargebacks'.  This is just a way for clients to get work for free:  They act like they they plan to pay, and then rather than try to file a groundless dispute with Upwork to get a refund through the correct process, they simply go around Upwork and issue themselves a 'refund' by doing a chargeback.  They do this because they know they have no grounds to tell Upwork you didn't complete the work, but they don't want to PAY for the work, so they just steal it.   I hate to say this, but there really is no 'protection' on this site if UW does not pay freelancers in these instances, which are the most common instances resulting in freelancers not being paid these days.  UW only 'protects' your payment if the client isn't a crook and plays by the rules. However, if your client is a crook and breaks the rules like this, you're pretty much just left high and dry and get ripped off.  Again, UW only protects you IF the client is not a crook.  However, since most scam artists are crooks by definition, you are not 'protected' from those people. Sorry.

 

Here is my advice: AVOID "new' clients at all cost, because they are UNPROVEN and the vast majority of the scam artists on the platform are 'new' clients.  I see that the client that did this to you had just joined Upwork on June 1,  only a couple weeks before your contract was issued. He hired another freelancer around the same time you were hired and problem did a 'chargeback' and ripped that person off too.  What  I don't understand is why Upwork still has a client's profile active, and the client has 7 other 'open' jobs posted-  likely to rip off some more people. At the very least, UW should have banned that client and kicked him off the platform already so he can't keep scamming other people.

 

I wouldn't go anywhere near a client that is that 'new'.  I won't deal with a client unless they have been on the platform at least 90 days and have at least one contract they paid out that ended at least 30 days ago.  The reason: Is most of the times when a 'new' client rips somebody off link this, they do it within a month of 'paying' the freelancer. This will either get the client suspended or kicked off the platform or you'll see very negative reviews from freelancers complaining they client didn't pay and ripped them off.   Because Upwork doesn't 'vet' any 'new' clients in any way shape or form, I just avoid them like the plague because almost every time some freelancer gets ripped off, it's one of these 'brand new' clients that created an account just long enough to run a scam or steal free work by doing 'charge backs'.  It sounds bad to have to discriminate against these 'new' clients, and maybe you lose a few potential good opportunities, but it's just not worth the risk if UW isn't vetting these new clients and most of the new clients are scam artists and thieves.  Work with the clients that have proven themselves with an established reputation on UW and avoid all the rest is my advice unless you like getting ripped off.

 

You have a very high-demand skill and you don't need to waste your time with 'unproven' clients like this.  There are more than enough clients with long, good track-records on Upwork that are just clamoring to get Python / Java developers. Stick to the clients that have document proof on their profiles of regularly hiring and paying people like they're suppose to.  If I were you, I wouldn't take a risk again with another client that 'just joined' upwork in the past few days or weeks.

Read it more closely You're only protected and Upwork will pay you if the client can't if you use the time tracker for hourly contracts. For fixed price contracts, "Upwork Fixed-Price Protection uses escrow to HELP ENSURE that you get paid for the work you do and your clients get the work you’ve agreed to do." That doesn't mean you get paid if the client's card is stolen or they issue a chargeback.

In the internet there are same stories for hourly protection on upwork.

 

I am not a lawyer. Here https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068288-Hourly-Protection

says similar.

To help keep you protected when you make Upwork you’re home for work, we offer Hourly Protection.

I think string "help keep you protected" is not the same as "to be protected".

 

Let's return to fixed-price protection "HELP ENSURE" and email I received

Please reply to this email within 48 hours and attach proof of the work or deliverables you completed for the client. 

In the "Messages window" everything was good, no any claims, project file was sent and tested by the client, contract ended with 5-star review "excellent work, thanks".

And the main question where is the "HELP ENSURE". Upwork has full access to the proof of the work in the messages, but they asking me to proof (only email me, the are no notifications on upwork website). Why upwork didn't screenshot chat messages and review? Next sent it to client's bank. Nothing was done.

I don't see any "HELP ENSURE".

 

Why here https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063748-Fixed-Price-Protection missing paragraph like:

We didn't cover following cases:

1. Used stolen card -> money returned to client without upwork dispute procedure.

2. Client asks his bank to chargeback -> money returned to client without upwork dispute procedure.

3. ...

Sviatoslav,

 

Disputes and chargebacks live in entirely different universes; the one has nothing to do with the other.

Disputes may arise at the time of delivery, or for the allowed window thereafter. Upwork's dispute assistance is generally minimal; they will try to get the disputing parties to agree. In the case of conflicting claims of fact they may look at the already existing work record; they don't solicit, or necessarily accept, evidence or arguments; those typically come into play only if the disputing parties cannot come to an agreement, and one of them chooses to take the case to paid third-party arbitration.

 

None of that has anything to do with chargebacks. Chargebacks have nothing to do with the dispute process.

 

When we are subjected to chargebacks, it is most often because a bad actor—either the client or someone who has stolen the use of their payment method—has paid you with stolen funds, or funds they now are trying to steal back from you. Upwork "defends" against chargebacks, and bans clients who use them. Under American law, defending against a chargeback is difficult; they are granted more or less automatically by the bank/card issuer. That is all a matter between Upwork and the card issuer; the details of your contract and performance may or may not be useful in that process; you will not be consulted.

 

The likeliest explanation of the chargeback is that you have been the victim of a theft—either work theft by your client, or third-party fraudulent theft from the client—the cost of which in either case is passed on to you by Upwork, which makes no money from any of this.

steroids
Community Member

My ticket to support didn't even assigned agent after 30 hours I created it

ArjayM
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Sviatoslav,

 

I'm sorry to hear about the unexpected refund that's been processed on your account. Please note that when the client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours that aren't covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed.

 

It looks like the team handling this issue have reached out to you and I highly suggest you continue communicating with our team through here or the same email for further assistance. Please avoid creating several tickets or posts for the same concern so that the team could assist you more efficiently. We seek your patience and utmost understanding while sorting this out for you. Thank you!

 

~ Arjay
Upwork
wlyonsatl
Community Member

CJ A,

 

Not taking on clients new to Upwork under fixed price projects is probably a good idea, especially for new freelancers.

 

But why not submit proposals to these clients on an hourly basis? I have occasionally seen interesting projects initially posted as fixed price or been invited to fixed price projects and proposed working under an hourly basis. Sometimes I have won those projects.

 

It's worth trying, especially for a new freelancer who wants to get started on Upwork.

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