Chargeback without client request

[#1]

Hello there 👋
This was my first job on Upwork 😥, After I finished the job, the client approved it, and the money was transferred to my account.
After 8 days, I received notification that the client had requested a chargeback. However, when I spoke with the client, she denied that he had requested a chargeback, and her account is on hold now.

I'm waiting for a reply from the Upwork team, but my concern here is how Upwork protects us as freelancers.
The client has the right to request chargeback after submission within 5 days, and based on my case, he has the right to also request chargeback after 5 days.

That means that as a freelancer, I could work on a project for hours or days, while the client could request a chargeback any day after delevier the work , causing me to lose money and time.

[#2]

This is a known issue and the TOP way that clients have been scamming freelancers lately.   They pretend to pay you then give themselves a 'refund' by doing a chargeback through the bank.  Unfortunately, the 'payment protection' advertised is very limited to the point it's basically non-existent:  If you read the 'fine print' of the payment protection policy, Upwork says you are not protected at all in the most common cases where freelancers get scammed - when client do 'chargebacks' like this.   At best, all Upwork will do is try to dispute it with the bank / financial institution.   Basically, your money is lost.  Word of advice, always avoid 'new' clients that have been on the platform less than 90 days and make sure their profile shows hires and completed contracts in which at least one freelancer was paid over 30 days ago.   Reason: Most of these scams are by 'new' clients and the 'chargeback' usually happens within 30 days, so by then the client will either be suspended or you'll already see freelancer review complaints on their profile of the client not paying.  Most of the scam artists on this site are so-called 'new' clients that create brand new accounts, quickly 'hire' somebody, get the work, then do a 'chargeback' to cheat the freelancer out of the money, effectively stealing work/labor.   I won't even give the time of day to a 'client' that has been on the platform less than 90 days and who hasn't paid out (and closed) at least one contract over 30 days ago.   NEVER do business with a client that just created an account in the past few days.   Don't be the 'crash test dummy' for the new clients. Let some other freelancer be the 'first' to try them out and risk getting ripped off, but wait until the client has been on the platform a while and PROVEN themselves to be a real client.  (The client showing up on your profile created their account just 2-3 days before 'hiring' you.)  Next time, look at the 'member since' date on the client's profile, and if it's under 90 days, avoid them.  Since you're new to UW, that is the safest thing for you to do. 

[#3]

Hi CJ A and others who are here on this Thread..i wanna share something what just happened to me last week...
Client Posted a Job - I sent the Proposal- Got The Job- Did the Job in a Day- Sent Watermarked Protected Files to get the Clients Approval- Client Replied Happily- Told me he will review and Pay- He Payed and all good- after couple months i got the Chargeback and actually at the time when i was working on more then 8 Intense Contracts bcz i needed funds as my Mom was very sick. Now when i was counting on these funds, my account was restricted to withdraw funds. I did exchanged alot of messages with upwork support but got ZERO satisfying answer...
Anyways, my point is if Upwork thinks that Chargebacks are soo bad that they will bann the Clients Account then i wanna ask, what are the steps Upwork is taking to deal with this Scam. This is a Pure Scam no doubts about it. Who is loosing the Most, The Freelancer not the Upwork. Freelancer is putting all his efforts to get the job done not Upwork bt at the end its the Freelancer who is been taking the HIT again n again.
I asked same questions to the Upwork Support n here they are-
thank you Janine for the Information,
u have any idea how long it can take to get the results of the Dispute Claim with the Clients Bank?
and again i want to ask u...what are the measures Upwork is taking for such kind of Circumstances as this Client can just create any account and use new bank details or someone else bank or debit / credit card details and he can do the same thing again?
I can understand that Upwork is being very serious with there policies and have suspended the Clients account but i wanna know what measures u are taking in the favor of the Freelancer because no doubts its the freelancer who is suffering the most...
This is a Straight Scam and you need to revise your terms & conditions.
Im being really very serious about this bcz this is goig on alot from past 3 to 4 years and upwork has not came up with any solution yet.
Kindly dont close this ticket till you get the result of the Claim against the Clients Bank...
Thank U!  
and this is the best answer they came up with - 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#4]

Lets just not be Dummies here, even if a Client is Suspended after Chargeback then he can still create a new account and use anyones Credit, Debit or Banking Detail and we are back at the Square1....lets not forget that most of these kinda Sacam Clients are from **Edited for Community Guidelines** and there is huge Scam going on there which is called 'Creating Fake Profiles' and 'Fake Credentials' and it is also called 'CREE'
In this Scam a person can just use Someones personal details and also the 'SSN' & 'SIN' numbers and create fake Ids and Banking. Most of this Frauds happen with Credit Cards only. The real Owner of the 'SSN' or SIN' number gets to know about this when he starts to earn money or when he is working or when he is going to file his first Tax or when he is trying to open his first Bank Account. Lol Its Confusing right. Let me make the picture more clear. The Scammer will always select a profile in which the person is between 16 to 20yrs of age. Yes they choose teenagers profile. Its very rare when they use a Grownups profile. I can write a Book on this as im a writer as well n i have did study on this issue. All i can say to my fellow Freelancers here is this is a reality n we have to accept it. Try to sharp ur Skills so u dont need any platforms. Upwork is here to do the buiseness. Dont accept anything more. We as a freelancers are just a Product for Upwork. This is a Fact. They Sell Us and they take there CUT.....Keep Smiling Guys bcz u got Talent with your hard work and Upwork is just fortunate to have you. One day Upwork will realize this. The Day is Closer!!
**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#5]

The scams come in different varieties from all over the world. There are good people in every nook and cranny of the planet and there are bad people in the same places.

The chargeback scam is tried in other places online. Unless you use the time tracker correctly, Upwork offers no protection. It is up to freelancers to protect themselves. With chargebacks, there is nothing Upwork can do, even if they support the client, it is still up to the bank to make the decision.

The freelancers who post in the community volunteer their time and expertise to help others. When I say Upwork is not responsible, I am speaking in facts. There is no logic in being outraged at Upwork when they didn't issue the chargeback.

What you interpret as a pro-Upwork attitude is presenting the facts. Upwork, nor anyone online is going to guarantee you never have a problem with dealing in money from a random stranger that you met through the Internet.  When I believe Upwork is responsible and not taking action I have no problem calling them on it.

[#6]

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

1. First of all! yes, Chargebacks can come from anywhere, then why dont Upwork Releases the records of the Chargebacks from the Different Countries **Edited for Community Guidelines**
2. There are Good people in every Nook, u dont need to tell me that bcz im not any Extraterrestrial, i belong to the same planet as you and i know how we humans are and we roll our lifes on TRUST,  thats why i started here and even after the chargebacks im still here and i really met great people here. Now if u mean the people claiming Charbacks are NO GOOD or THUGS then why not protect freelancers from them?
3. Now for ur other comment, 'The chargeback scam is tried in other places online' 
im right here n just talking about Upwork, why r u trying to shift the Topic to somewhere other Online?
4. This was really interesting, 'With chargebacks, there is nothing Upwork can do. even if they support the client'
Why will Upwork Support the Client at first?
n why not Upwork make a simple policy that once the payment is made, its done or its completely on Upwork to look into it not the Bank?
5. I'm not being Outraged 'YET' but im speaking Truth....when u say 'The freelancers who post in the community volunteer their time and expertise to help others'
So, this counts me in as well...i have jobs to do but im here talking about issues which can help everyone, now tell me please.....whats wrong that im talking about?

[#7]

6. Your last Paragraph literally got me mad...please listen to this...i went through your Profile...u r Top-Rated..(Blessing)
U have finished 43 Jobs and u did all of those jobs as a Fixed Priced not a single Hourly Job u have ever came acrossed?
Now this means u are not even Qualified for this thread....this thread was about 'Mohamed' who got a chargeback on a hourly contract and that was his first job.....
N Moreover out of 43 jobs u have 15 jobs with no given Feedbacks?
How is that?
Im a Top Rated VFX Artist here with 66 Finished Jobs with 150hrs and 6 ongoing
I dont even need to check but im sure i never got any feedback less the 5stars and may be there would be 2 or 3 jobs without any feedback but still with the clients who gave me 5 stars again in future...
So, please if u r counting urself as a Pro Freelancer who is trying to help others here then think about it again or atleast stick with 'Fixed Priced Topics' 
7. Again in ur last Paragraph u are taking the conversation out of Upwork....n if u say that u can call out Upwork when they are on a fall then why not call out Upwork to Take a Stand against the Scammers, if not then either add Tracking on Fixed Contracts as well or just remove this Fixed Contract Module and and Manual Hours n lets just stick with Tracking hours anything, anything any any anything?
I have spent 5 yrs in America, 6 yrs in canada half of my family is in europe, i have travelled arround this world at my most, all i can say is..being a Human we should Support each Other...thats all im trying to do..it will benifit the Freelancers and it will benefit Upwork as well.....i dont know why upwork is just showing a Black eye on this...
With all respect Jeanne....just think about it...!

[#8]

"6. Your last Paragraph literally got me mad."

Why? Here is the last paragraph you reference:

"What you interpret as a pro-Upwork attitude is presenting the facts. Upwork, nor anyone online is going to guarantee you never have a problem with dealing in money from a random stranger that you met through the Internet. When I believe Upwork is responsible and not taking action, I have no problem calling them on it."

I fail to understand why this would make you angry.

please listen to this...i went through your Profile...u r Top-Rated..(Blessing)

U have finished 43 Jobs and u did all of those jobs as a Fixed Priced not a single Hourly Job u have ever came acrossed?

Now this means u are not even Qualified for this thread....this thread was about 'Mohamed' who got a chargeback on a hourly contract and that was his first job....."

I do not accept hourly contracts. It was a decision I made after considering all the factors, and I have never regretted it, nor will I change it. However, that does not mean I have not read and absorbed the rules for working in that capacity.

I am an expert in areas I have never personally experienced, for example, how to improvise a trauma triage center for earthquake victims in an isolated area of an undeveloped country in the middle of an epidemic. No, I wasn't there, but my education, training, and experience make me an expert.

However, I never claimed to be an expert forum member, nor do I make that claim now. I post to help where I can. Sometimes helping means correcting misinformation.

"N Moreover out of 43 jobs u have 15 jobs with no given Feedbacks?

How is that?

Im a Top Rated VFX Artist here with 66 Finished Jobs with 150hrs and 6 ongoing

I dont even need to check but im sure i never got any feedback less the 5stars and may be there would be 2 or 3 jobs without any feedback but still with the clients who gave me 5 stars again in future...

Im a Top Rated VFX Artist here with 66 Finished Jobs with 150hrs and 6 ongoing

I dont even need to check but im sure i never got any feedback less the 5stars and may be there would be 2 or 3 jobs without any feedback but still with the clients who gave me 5 stars again in future..."

You should certainly know by now that public feedback, stars, and all are for show and mean nothing or next to nothing in your JSS. Private feedback is everything, along with other metrics like how much money, repeat clients, and other factors we aren't meant to know. Some clients just want a job done and don't hang around long enough for feedback. I'm sorry, but stars and rave reviews don't mean anything towards the JSS. No matter how much you want them to or how unfair you think the system is, we are all under the same metrics.

"So, please if u r counting urself as a Pro Freelancer who is trying to help others here then think about it again or atleast stick with 'Fixed Priced Topics'"

I am a professional freelancer with years on the platform. If I didn't feel qualified to respond to questions, I would not. Again, one doesn't have to personally have experienced something to be knowledgeable. Also, I know there are very experienced experts here who would quickly inform me if I was providing incorrect information, as would the moderators. Can you point to something I stated that was wrong?

"7. Again in ur last Paragraph u are taking the conversation out of Upwork....n if u say that u can call out Upwork when they are on a fall then why not call out Upwork to Take a Stand against the Scammers, if not then either add Tracking on Fixed Contracts as well or just remove this Fixed Contract Module and and Manual Hours n lets just stick with Tracking hours anything, anything any any anything?"

No platform guarantees they will cover chargebacks 100%. The business doesn't like them because it disrupts their flow of money. But it is the bank where the card was issued that takes action. The law in the U.S. is clear, and the bank is in charge. I pick my battles and trying to get Upwork involved in credit card chargebacks is not one I will pursue.

Anyone has the option of asking the client to use hourly tracking. I do not want it made mandatory because I do not want to use the hourly tracker, and I know many others who do not wish to use it.

[#9]

 I'm not sure of everything you posted because of the community guidelines.

"1. First of all! yes, Chargebacks can come from anywhere, then why dont Upwork Releases the records of the Chargebacks from the Different Countries **Edited for Community Guidelines**""

Again, chargebacks can come from anywhere. What possible good would it do to list each and every one, and the country? I don't want Upwork spending time and money on listing former scammers who are gone and will return with another scam.

"2. There are Good people in every Nook, u dont need to tell me that bcz im not any Extraterrestrial, i belong to the same planet as you and i know how we humans are and we roll our lifes on TRUST,  thats why i started here and even after the chargebacks im still here and i really met great people here."

I made my comment in response to your generalization.

"Now if u mean the people claiming Charbacks are NO GOOD or THUGS then why not protect freelancers from them?"

You don't understand how chargebacks work. It is not Upwork issuing the chargeback. It is the bank where the credit card was issued and there is nothing any outside agency can do.

Think about it; Upwork wants money. They make no money in a chargeback.

"3. Now for ur other comment, 'The chargeback scam is tried in other places online' 
im right here n just talking about Upwork, why r u trying to shift the Topic to somewhere other Online?"

I'm trying to help you understand this is not an Upwork problem, it is a chargeback scheme problem that can happen anywhere online.

"4. This was really interesting, 'With chargebacks, there is nothing Upwork can do. even if they support the client'
Why will Upwork Support the Client at first?
n why not Upwork make a simple policy that once the payment is made, its done or its completely on Upwork to look into it not the Bank?"

Again, you are not understanding chargebacks. Upwork has nothing to do with the decision, absolutely, positively, nothing, zero.

"5. I'm not being Outraged 'YET' but im speaking Truth....when u say 'The freelancers who post in the community volunteer their time and expertise to help others'
So, this counts me in as well...i have jobs to do but im here talking about issues which can help everyone, now tell me please.....whats wrong that im talking about?"

There is nothing wrong with your posts except you don't understand chargebacks and that misinformation can harm others. I never suggested you shouldn't post, I'm saying don't be upset when someone comes along to correct you when you have inaccurate information.

Seriously, try searching for chargeback scams and you will find an enormous amount of information that will help you see the problem in a larger scope.

[#10]

Thanks for your Reply Jeanne,
but again u skipped lots of questions?
Why cant Upwork just dissolve Fixed Price and Manual Logs and just keep Tracking?
If this is safe for freelancer and Upwork then why all these other options there...n i can understand that the Chargebacks can happen anywhere...i never said that u were wrong...i know...very well about it...the only reason why i was asking u to stick with Upwork is bcz Upwork has T&C for Clients that if they filed Chargeback then they will be banned...if its soo wrong then why is Upwork even giving them the Chance to do this...why dont just switch to Tracking only?
why put the freelancers hanging above a ditch? 
i have few feelings why....but it will be great if u can explain this simple thing...

[#11]

Because that would harm both clients and freelancers to take away those options by limiting how they work and for what kind of jobs. For instance, for what I do, the time tracker would be ridiculous and I've never used it. And I only take jobs that are fixed price or manual hours. Better Upwork just start  veryifing that cards aren't stolen.

[#12]

Even better if Upwork started verifying the IDENTIFICATION of clients like they do with freelancers.  If a client steals like this, Upwork is unable to take any real action because they didn't bother to verify the identity of the client. 

Everyone of these clients should have to provide a verifiable PHOTO ID before doing any business on here.   With the real identity of the client known to Upwork, Upwork can do many things when clients steal: 

1. Notify law enforcement when these crimes happen. In the U.S., it's a felony in most states to trigger a 'chargeback' by making a false claim to a financial institution that you were a 'fraud' victim or that the charges were 'unauthorized'. If both the client and freelancer are in the U.S. and in different states, you got a nice bank fraud case to forward over to the FBI.

2. Send the client an invoice in the mail for the work provided then send a COLLECTIONS agency  after them and RUIN their credit if they refuse to pay the invoice (Collections agencies are pretty cheap to hire, especially if Upwork can give them unlimited crooks to chase)  These days, bad credit ruins your life faster than a criminal record. 

3. Prevent scammer clients from creating an unlimited number of 'new' accounts and doing the same thing again - new email addresses are easy to create quickly ...Government issued Photo IDs that can pass 'muster', not so much.  Let's see how many of these scammers can afford high-end card printers and  expensive hologram lamanent to rapidly print new ID cards at home.  I'm guess a very small numbe.r

4. Discourage the scammers from opening an account to begin with:  People that plan to steal generally don't like to share their Driver's license or real identity, I've noticed

5. Discourage under-age people from creating accounts as 'clients'.  Remember, if they aren't requiring clients to show ID, they are violating their own policy by allowing KIDS on the platform who are not legally old enough to be a 'party' in any contract.  I'm sure most of these 'clients' running these in-game video game currency scams on the site are nothing more than kids that stole a credit card out their Mom's pocketbook

There are simple, common sense things UW can do to bring these incidents down to near zero, but they simply won't.  I see them adding new 'features' all the time, but don't see them adding the 'feature' everybody needs - fewer scams and crooks on the site. 

Right now, UW is content to simply ask the bank 'nicely' to return the money and 'hope' for the best.  Hope is not a strategy.

[#13]

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Peter G wrote:

Because that would harm both clients and freelancers to take away those options by limiting how they work and for what kind of jobs. For instance, for what I do, the time tracker would be ridiculous and I've never used it. And I only take jobs that are fixed price or manual hours. Better Upwork just start  veryifing that cards aren't stolen.

---

Peter, have you ever not been paid? 

[#14]

No. Well sort of yes. A couple times they wanted to pay me less than we agreed upon because they turned out to be nuts and I agreed just to avoid to having to deal with them any more. And a couple more I refunded their money for the same reason.

[#15]

I replied to all of your questions in another post.

If Upwork eliminated all fixed-price jobs, many freelancers and clients would leave and never return. I am one of them. I do not work on an hourly basis, and I will not. That is my choice, and I do not want other people telling me how I can work. I don't want to work an hourly job, but I have no problem with those that do. I have never been scammed.

Getting rid of fixed-price jobs is bad for everyone. I do not understand the problem. If you are concerned about any job, don't do it. But many thousands of freelancers do just fine with fixed-price jobs. Simply don't work anything but correctly logged time tracker hours if you like. But don't try to eliminate my revenue stream because you don't like it.

[#16]

Great advice. I can't help but thinking that since all these payments come through Upwork, they would do more to prevent this type of fraud if they were on the hook for it after a freelancer withdraws the money and a chargeback is later issued instead of making the freelancer pay them back. After all, it was Upwork who didn't check to see if the card was stolen or not. Freelancers can't do that, Upwork could but doesn't.

[#17]

Hey Peter,
this is absolutely my point!!

[#18]

How many times should they run it through? Seriously, I am asking. You can't expect them to keep testing and testing. I know it is a problem, but I don't think more test runs will solve the problem.

[#19]

You are not protected By Upwork unless you use the hourly time tracker.

[#20]

Hey Mohamed, 
Take it easy dear. I'm sorry for what happened to you. It has happened to me as well. Give yourself a try again. If u can win one job here then im sure u can win many more jobs. Keep up with a Winners attitude. Dont waste your time expecting any solutions here. The replys n  answers will drive u crazy. I just saw people talking about you having a Different hourly rate on your account and Charging something different. LOL It was between u n ur client. Its simple n u r right u dont need to explain that to someone. Its soo funny that how people can just change the Subject of Conversation to somewhere else or to somewhere where they can make u Shut....Good Luck Young Man....!!

[#21]

CJ your suggestions are excellent.  Upwork does not fight chargebacks.  All they lose is 20%.  

Paramjit and others cool down.  Accept that after all those mumbo jumbo about payment protection, you ultimately have no protection.  Consider that you will lose X% of your revenue.  Just raise your rate.  Structure your contracts such that you don't lose money.  Don't bid on jobs with tight deadlines .  Those jobs are more prone to chargebacks.  Don't work for new buyers and so on

[#22]

Maybe credit card option is the one that needs to be removed.

Transferring "actual fund" instead of "credits" is easier and better right now (compared with years ago). We have Wise, Xoom, and whatever Upwork use for their direct to bank transfer.

Chargeback system is actually good, I supported it, but in Upwork it has more bad than good.

I never had payment problems, with anyone, but I see in here we can get asked (forced) to send money to Upwork for a refund request for a project months ago which is crazy.

[#23]

yes this is totally worst I got a chargeback requirest after 45 days.

[#24]

I am having the same issue. Luckily i withdraw my all money exactly one Day before i got notified but now my account might get deleted if I don't pay. But my Q is why Upwork community is always on clients side. Why they have even allowed charge back. It means our Money is always at risk. So disappointed 😞 

[#25]

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Hamna A wrote:

I am having the same issue. Luckily i withdraw my all money exactly one Day before i got notified but now my account might get deleted if I don't pay. But my Q is why Upwork community is always on clients side. Why they have even allowed charge back. It means our Money is always at risk. So disappointed 😞 

---

Well, have you read the thread? Answers to your questions are given.
Upwork has NOTHING to do with chargeback. It is the client who has done it. So it's the customer you have to blame.
On the other hand, Upwork has to recover the money. You won't lose your account for that. What you will have is red numbers until your earnings pay what was reversed.
Nobody can protect against a chargeback, and Upwork can't do anything about it.
Contact CS and they will tell you what to do so they can try to reverse it. We know that there have been times that they have succeeded.
By the way, the Upwork community is not always on the client side. In fact, you'll get responses from freelancers who are also clients.
If you read the forums, you will see that the "slaps" are distributed for ones and another 😉