Client Didn't Pay Up

[kelvinwah]

Hello,

I recently completed a task (blog article) with a fixed price and submitted it through the official submit button. The issue here is that the client is yet to release the payment for the work done.

The task had a couple of revisions that the client requested, and after working on the revisions, the client is still holding on to payments.

What's really disturbing about this issue is that the task in question is already published on the client's website exactly how I submitted it. And if that's not enough, the client isn't responding to any of my messages.

Thank you.

[prestonhunter]

Click the "Submit Work for Payment" button.

Do not send any messages to the client.

You will be paid AUTOMATICALLY if the client does nothing.

If the client attempts to block payment again, then file a dispute.

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068528-Dispute-Non-Release-of-a-Milestone-Payment

[kelvinwah]

Hello Preston,

Thank you for this. Here's an update:

The client released the funds as of yesterday.

Initially, the entire project was $50 with 2 milestones, all of which the client has approved and even released the funds. Even better, the client has expressed interest in working with me on future projects.

However, the client has requested a 50% refund without offering any explanations: This is after ending the contract. Note: The client had deposited a $25 deposit in Escrow for the first milestone as per our agreements.

This is puzzling, to say the least, and a bit confusing for me: I mean, the client released the funds, approved both milestones, said they were open to discussing future projects, then goes ahead and requests a refund?

Is there something I'm missing here? Thanks

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

Kelvin:

Thank you for providing an update!

It is always nice to know the rest of the story...

re: "The client released the funds as of yesterday."

That's great! That's what we want.

re: "However, the client has requested a 50% refund without offering any explanations: This is after ending the contract. Note: The client had deposited a $25 deposit in Escrow for the first milestone as per our agreements. This is puzzling, to say the least, and a bit confusing for me: I mean, the client released the funds, approved both milestones, said they were open to discussing future projects, then goes ahead and requests a refund? Is there something I'm missing here?"

That is disappointing.

I am going to be really honest with you about this:

I might be the wrong person to ask.

I'm just not a very patient person when it comes to client shenanigans. And I am often not very "curious" about "why" a client does something weird.

So I can NOT tell you what you should do. I can only tell you what I would do:

If I was paid $50 and then the client asked me for a $25 refund without any explanation, I wouldn't do anything. I would ignore it. If it's an informal refund sent as a chat message, then nothing will happen. If it is some kind of formal refund that requires a response in order to block, I would do nothing. What is the worst that will happen to me? A client will get $25 back. If a client feels he neesd $25 from me to be made whole, so be it. (And I understand that with the rates I charge, $25 may have a different meaning for some freelancers than it does for me.)

I just don't have time to deal with something like that, and I'm not interested in going through the mental gymnastics required to try to understand why a client hires me, gets my work, likes it, says they're going to hire me some more, and then pays me and then asks for money back.

What I am telling you here is NOT the "right answer." It is not what anybody else should do in a similar situation. It is just what I would do in this very particular situation.

[kelvinwah]

Preston:

Thank you for this. I think in the future I'll have to be more careful with the clients I work with.

[wlyonsatl]

Clients can be unpredictable, illogical, selfish, etc., etc.

If you did the work DO NOT agree to a refund. 

If you agree to a refund that's the same as if you had originally agreed to do all of the work you agreed to do at half of the actual agreed amount. If that's what the client wanted, they should have told you upfront.

Once the project is closed, if the client has not paid you in full make sure he knows he does not have your permission to use your work on his Web site (or anywhere else) and make it stick. 

There are threads on this board that discuss how to prevent a former client from using unpaid for content. Have a look through those messages.

If I were a gambling man I'd bet this is not the first time this client has tried to pull this trick. Upwork REALLY needs to start providing information about clients' history of cancelled projects, requests for refunds, etc. so freelancers can avoid such clowns.

[petra_r]

---

Will L wrote:

If I were a gambling man I'd bet this is not the first time this client has tried to pull this trick. 

---

In this case, that info is in the client's history

• $300 total spent
  18 hires, 10 active

The client hired 18 freelancers, has one closed contract (which may even be to make the account look harmless) and 10 open contracts. That leaves 7 hires unaccounted for... out of 18. 

Over a third.

[wlyonsatl]

If only we all had the time to play Sherlock Holmes on every client whose projects we find through search or who contact us directly (over 1,000 prospective clients per year for me, maybe well over). But I rarely do fixed price projects, so the need is less pressing for my own purposes.

Upwork should just post the information clearly for easy access by all freelancers. I'd be happy to have them post the equivalent in my public profile.

Upwork also loses its fees when clients successfully demand refunds, so it's surprising such clients are allowed to hang around for any length of time.

[prestonhunter]

If you buy something in a retail store, you can probably return it.

But... what if you do that again?

You could get a warning.

And then the next time?

Maybe you won't be able to return the item.

A company (The Retail Equation) keeps track of returns at the major retail chains. EVERY time you return something, your returns are being tracked and your score is being updated.

If you are returning too many items relative to your purchases, then you will simply be blocked from making additional returns.

It could easily be your third return at the same chain that gets blocked.

It depends on how much you buy, what you buy, how frequently, the cost of items, if items are classified as high-theft-risk items, condition of returned item, reason for return, if you present a physical receipt or not.

Amazon, Best Buy, Home Depot, and Victoria's Secret are among the many retailers that do this.

But Upwork?

It seems like Upwork doesn't do this at all.

Hey, Upwork, you don't even need to block anybody. Just show us the numbers associated with each client.