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Re: Connects get out of hand.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
31 of 57

Richard L wrote:


No. What I said was that JSS and clients who would recommend are clearly not a one-to-one correlation. Upwork says as much. Whomever stated that they were a one-to-one correlation was making a false statement.


I did not see anyone claim there was a one-to-one correlation. I did see you claim the private feedback JSS (aka "Clients who would recommend") was "false," which is what Michael (Douglas) was talking about.

 

clients recommend.png

 

The JSS is the best of your 6, 12 or 24-month windows, includes bonuses for long term and repeat clients and excludes outcomes from clients who have a history of excessively poor outcomes or suspended clients, whereas the private feedback JSS (aka "Clients who would recommend") includes all responses from all clients who left such private feedback over the lifetime of your profile.

 

Arguably, the private feedback JSS (aka "Clients who would recommend") gives a far more honest picture of what a freelancer's clients really thought of their experience, whereas the JSS, being the best of 3 windows and "tidied up" version, is the sanitized advertising version.

 

If you take a look at the difference between your JSS and your private feedback JSS (aka "Clients who would recommend") on your "My Stats Page" you'll see what I mean.

 

Community Guru
Richard L Member Since: Dec 14, 2016
32 of 57

Wow...nice way to yank that out of context. Acronyms appear to be the problem. My conjecture was that JSS != CSS.  I would imagine that CSS influences both JSS and "Clients who would recommend you"

I was replying to "As long as you don't have an insane percentage of "no feedback" clients, it has **NO** effect on your JSS in any way, shape or form. I just saw a profile of a freelancer with 85% of no feedback contracts and 100% JSS." 

This does not match what I was told — or what I experienced.

Michael said: " It's [JSS] all but a direct function of the My Stats "Clients Who Would Recommend" metric."

That is what I was claiming was false. JSS is not only determined by CSS. I don't know at all how I could possibly evaluate the CSS which is not available/hidden. I never said the CSS was a fake number. I'm sure it is a pretty straight average calculation. Whether it is over-all or within a time window (as JSS *is*) I'd have no idea. Neither would you or Michael as that information is not posted anywhere and support will not provide it.

This is so far off topic with all the nit-picking... It really is hardly worth discussing. Do you like to correct people's typos too? What's the point?

Mine was that the current connects 'system' is not good.




Community Guru
Abinadab A Member Since: Sep 26, 2016
33 of 57

Douglas Michael M wrote:

Richard L wrote:

Petra,

Then go tell the technical support person who told me that I had too many clients with no feedback and it was hurting my score that you are right and she was not.

If you know the JSS algorithm, please make it public, because Upwork won't. You are making stuff up!


Petra does not "mak[e] stuff up." She is more knowledgeable about the workings of Upwork than many Upwork employees.



CSS has access to more data than Petra.

As one of the perks of being top rated, CSS might jump in to give "personalised profile feedback", including on the FL's JSS. (paraphrase mine).

 

Whatever they say in such personalised JSS feedback supersedes whatever general comments another freelancer may make right off the bat, without even seeing the profile of the FL in question.

Highlighted
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
34 of 57

Abinadab, it is absolutely essential for Upwork success to understand just how often CS gives out blatantly false information, often to the serious detriment of the freelancer. One incident I specifically recall involved the Upwork CS rep repeatedly assuring a freelancer that he should close a fixed price contract and then would be able to dispute. The freelancer had read forum posts from experienced freelancers like Petra and thought that wasn't right and questioned and verified repeatedly, but the CS rep insisted that was the way to go. So, the freelancer did as instructed and the $2,000 in escrow was instantly returned to the client, as everyone except the CS rep knew it would be.

 

This sort of thing happens a lot. Some CS reps seem to guess. Others cut and paste answers to the wrong questions. Some seem to have a bit of a language barrier. They routinely provide dangerously false information, and experienced freelancers--Petra more than any of us--often spend time helping freelancers do what they can do recover from the damage caused by this misinformation.

Community Guru
Abinadab A Member Since: Sep 26, 2016
35 of 57

Tiffany S wrote:

Abinadab, it is absolutely essential for Upwork success to understand just how often CS gives out blatantly false information, often to the serious detriment of the freelancer. One incident I specifically recall involved the Upwork CS rep repeatedly assuring a freelancer that he should close a fixed price contract and then would be able to dispute. The freelancer had read forum posts from experienced freelancers like Petra and thought that wasn't right and questioned and verified repeatedly, but the CS rep insisted that was the way to go. So, the freelancer did as instructed and the $2,000 in escrow was instantly returned to the client, as everyone except the CS rep knew it would be.

 

This sort of thing happens a lot. Some CS reps seem to guess. Others cut and paste answers to the wrong questions. Some seem to have a bit of a language barrier. They routinely provide dangerously false information, and experienced freelancers--Petra more than any of us--often spend time helping freelancers do what they can do recover from the damage caused by this misinformation.


I appreciate your comments, Tiffany.

However, I still maintain that as a general rule, when providing personalised profile feedback (including but not limited to JSS), to Top Rated freelancers, Technical support has access to more data than any freelancer could lay their hands on.

 

The scenario you mentioned, though true, is an outlier, an exception rather than the norm.

I believe that over time they would have hired Support staff who speak better English and/or trained the existing ones more. And/or used only the Higher-end support staff (yes, there's that strata) when giving such personalised profile feedback to the most important crop of freelancers.

 

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
36 of 57

Abinadab A wrote:

 

The scenario you mentioned, though true, is an outlier, an exception rather than the norm.

 


How do you know? What data do you have about the accuracy of information freelancers have received from CS?

Community Leader
Md E Member Since: Apr 26, 2018
37 of 57

I think the new connect system is bad at all. To me, it's like a wall between the unprofessional freelancers and upwork. Before the number of proposals crossed 50+ within a few minutes now it has been decreased. But the new policy for clients is not good at all (personally to me). Clients are leaving. I think upwork should re-think about it. 

 

A joke: Freelancers don't need to spend connects to accept invitations. Clients need to subscribe to membership plan to send invitations.

Thank you.
Md Emonuzzaman
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
38 of 57

Md E wrote:

 But the new policy for clients is not good at all (personally to me). Clients are leaving.


Exactly.

All those people up in arms over the fact that Upwork charge for connects are missing the real threat to their freelancing business, which is the client pans and charges for them, which are chasing clients away.

Successful freelancers won't suffer from spending a few Dollars on connects, they WILL suffer from clients abandoning the site.

 

Community Guru
Sanja D Member Since: Dec 18, 2013
39 of 57

Petra R wrote:

Md E wrote:

 But the new policy for clients is not good at all (personally to me). Clients are leaving.


Exactly.

All those people up in arms over the fact that Upwork charge for connects are missing the real threat to their freelancing business, which is the client pans and charges for them, which are chasing clients away.

Successful freelancers won't suffer from spending a few Dollars on connects, they WILL suffer from clients abandoning the site.

 


I don't mind paying for connects (I was forced here  from Elance, and that was a norm there) - however, I still see 50 proposals on each job (except for the super crappy ones and clients with unverified payment), around 95% of the jobs end up with no interviews (let alone hires).
And I know I need to invest in my freelance business - as a graphic designer, I spend a few hundred bucks on software  and  font licensing each month).

What I do mind, though, is wasting money - and at the moment, I think that paying premium membership or purchasing connects  is money wasted...

Community Guru
Richard L Member Since: Dec 14, 2016
40 of 57

Petra,

Aren't you the one who just said Upwork isn't making interest on the money they hold? Yet they hold the freelancers over a fire for 30 to 90 cents per application? I'd like proof that they are not holding money to get interest on it and how you know that for a fact.

I was lucky to get a few good clients right before the policy change, but this mucking around is certainly NOT improving the situation for freelancers or clients.

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