Has anybody managed to convert a contract and move it outside of Upwork lately?

[elisa_b]

According to this support article, here is what has to be done to submit a conversion request:

1. Go to Jobs > All Contracts
2. Choose a specific contract under All contracts and select the (…) menu
3. Select the Request Contract Conversion button to start the conversion process

Guess what, there is no "Request Contract Conversion button". 

And the $1 conversion fee is no longer mentioned anywhere, as we noticed months ago.

Has anybody managed to successfully convert their contract, then? 

[PradeepH]

Hi Elisa,

I appreciate your inquiry. I would like to clarify that this process needs to be initiated by the client. The steps listed in your post can be found on the client account.

I looked into your Upwork account and I did not find a client profile associated with it. If you are checking on behalf of your client, please ask them to reach out to us directly so that we can help them further.

- Pradeep

[elisa_b]

Hi Pradeep, thanks for your reply.

I was just trying to understand if the option was available on my side. I haven't asked my client yet. 

Can you please confirm the opt-out fee still amounts to $1? 

And can I be the one who pays for it?

[LuiggiR]

That's correct, Elisa. The conversion fee for a client and freelancer who have had an Upwork relationship for at least two years is $1, and the client is the one responsible for paying it.

[researchediting]

Of course, this could have been explained when the question of the missing instructions came up weeks or months ago; or it could have been explained, or given proper detail and emphasis, in the original announcement about the new fee and procedure; but no…that's not the Upwork way.

[mikelottridge]

I had no idea how expensive the conversion process would be for contracts less than 2 years old. Either the freelancer or client must pay the hourly rate x 2080 x 13.5%. So if your hourly rate is $75, even if it's a 5 hour contract per week that wants to convert, the fee would be $21,060, since the actual hours worked don't matter, only your hourly rate and the number of hours you work within a year. So in my example, the contract would earn less per year ($19,500) than the conversion fee ($21,600). Wow. Seems like a flat percentage of the contract annual value would be more reasonable.

Am I looking at this correctly? Not an issue for me currently, but something I will definitely keep in mind for future work. I get where Upwork needs to ensure both parties don't abuse the service, but this seems pretty extreme.  https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043723533

[sofia2008]

Did one earlier this week, you can send me private message if you want details.

[m_yuhasz]

My client tried these instructions and there was NO "Request Contract Conversion" button at all! I asked Upwork about this on his behalf and they did nothing!

Mike Y.

[JoanneP]

Hi Michael,

I checked your account and can confirm that one of our agents is already assisting you with this issue. Please allow our team some time to review, and they will update you directly on the same ticket to assist further. 

[m_yuhasz]

The latest "help" I've gotten is that my contract does not have a conversion option. I guess I'm officially a slave, right?

[PradeepH]

Hi Michael,

I am sorry to hear how you feel. I see that our team is still reviewing your concern and one of our team members will reach out to you via the same support ticket as soon as they have an update. 

- Pradeep 

[kbadeau]

I'm having the same problem. Client whom I have worked with for more than 2 years does not see option to convert contract. When I tried it myself (as I'm also a client...I tried it on an entirely unrelated contract), I DID see the option to convert a different contract. The only difference is that the contract I tried to convert was LESS than 2 years old, so it gave me the helpful information that it would cost me $5000 to convert.

Which makes me wonder, do they not show the option for clients with freelancer contracts they have that are OLDER than two years? How can my client initiate this process? December 31 is coming up awfully quickly now.

[sunilnitie]

Hi @kelly B, were you able to find a solution to this issue? my client's also do not see the option, even when I tried from my client profile, I do not see the option to convert for any contract that I have hired for.

[LuiggiR]

Hi Sunil,

I checked and can confirm that you can find the option to convert the contract from the client's Dashboard home page. You can click on "(...)" for the contract in question, and you should see the option "Hire talent full time". That option would then take you through the conversion process; you'd just need to follow the instructions you see on the screen.

I understand this hasn't been easy to find, and I'll be sure to share your feedback with the respective teams.

[researchediting]

Just when you thought Upwork couldn't possibly get more clueless about the nature of freelancing and independent contracting (emphasis added):

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Luiggi R wrote:

I checked and can confirm that you can find the option to convert the contract from the client's Dashboard home page. You can click on "(...)" for the contract in question, and you should see the option "Hire talent full time". That option would then take you through the conversion process; you'd just need to follow the instructions you see on the screen.

---

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[ravi_iitian]

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Douglas Michael M wrote:

Just when you thought Upwork couldn't possibly get more clueless about the nature of freelancing and independent contracting (emphasis added):

---

Luiggi R wrote:

I checked and can confirm that you can find the option to convert the contract from the client's Dashboard home page. You can click on "(...)" for the contract in question, and you should see the option "Hire talent full time". That option would then take you through the conversion process; you'd just need to follow the instructions you see on the screen.

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Haha!

But I would never ever consider moving off the Upwork platform.

Doesn't matter how long I have known a client; I'd rather pay the Upwork fee and have peace of mind.

[yofazza]

People are different. I have peace of mind knowing that everything is under my control instead.😁

[ravi_iitian]

---

Radia L wrote:

People are different. I have peace of mind knowing that everything is under my control instead.😁

---

Good for you.

[the-right-writer]

What gives you peace of mind using Upwork?

(sincere question)

[ravi_iitian]

Payment protection, among other things.

[the-right-writer]

With chargebacks and other issues, I don't feel there is any payment protection. On Upwork, you have to protect yourself, because no one will do it for you.

[ravi_iitian]

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Jeanne H wrote:

With chargebacks and other issues, I don't feel there is any payment protection. On Upwork, you have to protect yourself, because no one will do it for you.

---

Yes, there is the danger of chargebacks.

The only real protection against chargebacks is the Hourly Payment Protection.

Still, even for fixed-price jobs, some protection is better than no protection.

[the-right-writer]

I have seen too many people have issues with payment, for hourly, too. That's the problem. There are some freelancers who do everything correctly, and still lose.

What protection is there for situations like chargebacks? There is none.

[ravi_iitian]

---

Jeanne H wrote:

I have seen too many people have issues with payment, for hourly, too. That's the problem. There are some freelancers who do everything correctly, and still lose.

What protection is there for situations like chargebacks? There is none.

---

First of all, very few clients indulge in chargebacks. We should be able to tell from a client’s history whether or not they are reliable. For a client with no Upwork history, I try to judge the person at the interview stage.

Second, the Hourly Payment Protection does protect against chargeback if certain conditions are met.

The following has been taken from this link: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068288-Hourly-Payment-Protection

To qualify for Hourly Payment Protection, you must:

• Have an hourly contract
• Have an ID Verification Badge
• Work with a client who is using a verified billing method
• Use an Upwork account in good standing
• Log your hours with the Upwork Desktop App
• Have contract-related activity in your Work Diary
• Update your Work Diary with memos or activities labels that describe the activity performed
• Maintain adequate and fair activity levels
• Stay within the contract's weekly limit

I request a moderator to confirm that Hourly Payment Protection does indeed protect against chargeback.

[ravi_iitian]

Upwork does provide Hourly Payment Protection against chargebacks.

“We will let you know through email if your client requested a chargeback and what their stated reason was for filing. If you qualify for Upwork Payment Protection, your funds will be protected.”

You can see the details here https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/14084991625107-Chargebacks.

“Upwork Hourly Payment Protection doesn’t apply to bonuses, manual time, or fixed-price projects. See the Upwork Terms of Service and Hourly Escrow Instructions for full terms and conditions.”

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062568-Upwork-Payment-Protection

[yofazza]

Most of us who frequent the forums have read many reports of the protection that doesn't work as it should.

The most recent: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Upwork-in-2023-Scammers-everywhere/m-p/1493099

For a long time, I've seen the protection as similar to a bad insurance company, where their first response to a claim request is to deny the claim, people need to yell loudly to try to change the decision, and they have internal, untold criteria to give (or not to give) the protection (which I kind of understand the reason for).

[ravi_iitian]

I did follow the link you provided.

Gave me food for thought.

[the-right-writer]

I request a moderator to confirm that Hourly Payment Protection does indeed protect against chargeback.

While you may receive a technical "yes" the truth is when it comes time to be paid, the freelancer is told they didn't have enough keystrokes, mouse movements or memos, or that there were other issues. There are enough people who haven't been paid in these situations to make it a real problem.

As far as I am concerned, from helping others and reading the forum, there is no guaranteed payment. Too many people have discovered otherwise. Is it everyone? No, but significant enough to feel there are no guarantees.

[a_lipsey]

Hi Luiggi, I just went under my client account to a contract that is over 2 years old and there is no option to Hire Full Time as you suggest or to convert the contract, under the 3 dots that you mention. Where can we find the ability to convert the contracts? 

[kbadeau]

This is patently absurd. No client in their right mind would expect "HIRE TALENT FULL TIME" to be the correct button to click to CONVERT a contract for $1. I will explain it to my client, since I am also a client, because I was able to click the link myself and see that it doesn't automatically make a freelancer my full time employee, but it is BEYOND RIDICULOUS that Upwork goes to such great lengths to make converting contracts a scary procedure that can ONLY be initiated (and paid for ) by clients, when the unfortunate reality is that the majority of us with long term projects on the site would have just KEPT THE CONTRACTS ON THE SITE if you hadn't DOUBLED our fees for no reason out of the blue.

[kbadeau]

Every client I've had who's tried to initiate the process has been unable to see the option, except 1. To make matters worse, the CLIENT then has to jump through the online support hoops, since ONLY THE CLIENT can initiate the process, even though both client and freelancer have to agree to convert the contract. It's nonsensical. The person who stands to lose anything is the freelancer. The clients don't care if we get kicked off Upwork. They think once they've closed the contract that's all they have to do. Upwork, you HAVE TO MAKE THE INITIATION OF THIS PROCESS AVAILABLE TO FREELANCERS. We're the ones who get hurt if we don't convert, and we're the ones with the knowledge, patience, and incentive to jump through all the hoops to make sure it's done correctly.

I get it, there's a breakage model. You think if you make it hard, make people have to go through customer support to start the process, people will just give up, and you'll keep getting that 10% fee. But what you ACTUALLY get is circumvention. Please, HELP THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. Let freelancers initiate the contract conversion process. The client has to agree to it, so what difference does it make who starts the process?

[yofazza]

I just read this, how convenient! 😂

[browersr]

I understand that Upwork is trying to create friction to deter people from taking advantage of this provision. However, I may suggest that not doubling fees with no corresponding service value might be a better way. As both sides have to agree to move off-platform, there is no reason to force the initial option to be on the client. There is no reason to force the $1 payment to be on the client. There is no reason to confuse and cause alarm to the client by making them think that the freelancer now has to be their full-time employee. At the end of the day, we are looking at thousands of dollars of unnecessary fees and so none of the above is going to serve as a legitimate deterrent. It only serves to make Upwork look unprofessional and petty. I am very grateful for what this platform has allowed me to achieve so it's just disappointing to see them engage in these kinds of silly games. 

[browersr]

I have just taken a client through this process and Upwork could not make it more difficult or problematic. The instructions that Upwork provides on the site are entirely wrong. You will NOT find a "Request Contract Conversion" option from the (...) menu. You will only find it directly as a "Hire Talent Full Time" option from the client's "Your workspace". Additionally, it doesn't always show. My client had to log out and back in for it to display. He then went through the process and after the last step which asked him to "let their freelancer know why they are making this request", it errored out with a "Your request could not be processed" message. He again had to log out and back in. He went through the process yet again and this time it did complete that step. I then received a message about it and was able to accept the conversion. It then says it's back to him and that it's waiting for him to complete some final step (allegedly). However, he has no message from Upwork in his inbox nor any notifications on the site.  A while later he finally receives a message asking him to pay the $1. He pays it and we both, mercifully, receive the final "all clear" email from Upwork. 

This is honestly disgraceful. I had to waste an hour of my client's time working through this byzantine process. From incorrect FAQ's to bad wording to errors and inconsistencies. Upwork is doing everything possible to dissuade people from taking rightful actions declared in their own ToS. This needs to be corrected immediately. Please act the part of a professionally run organization that has enabled many great things for hundreds of thousands of people, myself included. This should be beneath you. 

Edit - I am including the instructions you will find on UW for this process. Only a portion of step 4 is correct. The rest is entirely wrong. 

[toniyevych]

I can confirm that the conversion process was intentionally made very hard. The steps described in the FAQ do not match the real UI. Both "Request Contract Conversion" and "Hire Talent Full Time" were missing.

Fortunately, we have found the contract-to-hire item in the contract details, which was not available.

In the popup help message, there was a link to the help article where it's possible to convert a contract.

It was leading to the page like this one: https://www.upwork.com/full-time

[AndreaG · Accepted solution]

Hi all,

Thank you for bringing the instructions in this help article to our attention. We were able to follow up with the team and they have made the updates necessary to reflect the current experience. If your client doesn’t see this option on their end, please advise them to reach out to the Upwork Support Team to be assisted further.