Hourly Rate - Countries

[#1]

Hello,

I'd like to know how clients behave, so clients from third world countries in most case would be paying less hourly rate ?

I'd like to know how clients in developed countries thinks. I am seeing many freelancers (ex: skills translating) were able to obtain high paying clients (most from developed countries), meanwhile with the same skills, there are many other freelancer with same skills same quality (check ratings/reviews) but they are earning less. So why would these clients are paying higher while they can still find freelancers whom are cheaper with the same skills & quality ?

So is it because, if the client are from developed countries, they will eventually pay higher any ways to any freelancer ? where's the logic behind that ?

[#2]

Very true, but some clever, but not many, third world countries freelancers were able to rip of these westerners/developed countries and get high payment. I really love to know how they did it.

[#3]

I have noticed many cheap buyers from a few, large Western-culture countries,  in the American continent, Europe and Oceania. 

I wonder if this could be a sort of "colonial" attitude, an expectation to pay for work with a couple of peanuts and a banana if it's outside their Realm? Any other views?

In my experience, it can happen that "the richer they are, the tighter and penny-pinching they can be".

Visitors from such countries can also be very vocal in complaining about costs when they travel, expect everything for free and often seek compensation on false premises. 

Then there is a large country in Asia from where all the contacts that I got so far expected not to pay for any work under the promise of commissions.

I would not assume that cheap clients just come from the so-called under developed countries.

[#4]

No. It's because these people/clients actually don't have a lot money and they want to get the best bang for their buck. 

Rents in the US can go from $1K to $4-5K for studios or even just bedrooms. 

[#5]

The ones that I personally witnessed do have money, live well and are also well pampered by their Governments. What you suggest is also possible but, if one has no budget and did not secure funding for his/her plans, is not a business person and is not a client. Is just someone who plans to trick others to invest in his/her project with their work without any return. Better let go.

[#6]

It can also because these clients are smart and peeky. Why would they pay more of something they can get cheaper for ?. It's clearly a rip off, if you pay more for that.

[#7]

Makes sense. A lot of the wealthy elites don't have experience doing anything like the jobs for which they hire. I can imagine that they would also assume that anybody who lives a modest lifestyle is happy to work for little.

[#8]

I believe life in general is about value, we all lay value one each and just about everything in our lives. Companies/employers/countries all pay people based on how they value each of us as well. Value or worth in this case is basically how much i can make with the least amount of what i must pay out. This my friends is what places value. lol I see it neither as good or bad, because i have the choice to decide how much i see my value. So i will work and do things as i see how much i am worth

[#9]

Bottom line is you get what you pay for, this goes for any country. People's skills may match but an individuals work ethics vary. Some are dedicated, hard working, conscientious, self motivated. while others well you know what i am saying 

[#10]

Sums it up well. 

[#11]

I´m from Brazil.

$1 = R$5,30 aproximately

An hourly rate $7-$10/h makes us rich.

Lets calculate, if a brazilian freelancer works 40 hours per week at $7/h so:

7 x 40 = $280 per week.

280 x 4 = $1120 per month

1120 x 12 = $13.400 annualy

How much is these ammounts in brazilian currency?

In a week: $280  = R$1484 - This is almost an average monthly salary in Brazil.
In a month: $1120 = R$5.936 -This is a salary for high class in Brazil.
In a year: $13.400 = R$71.000,20 - I can buy a luxury car with this ammount.

[#12]

Interesting, Andre.

I"m in France. The cost of living here is rather similar to the cost of living in the United States. Whenever I go the the States, as the VAT is much lower than in France, I even find things rather cheap in the States.

However, for some reason, I get the feeling that many Americans get the feeling France is a "third world country" and expect freelancers to work for very low prices. It's rather strange and even upsetting.

[#13]

Same for Italy, Luce. Some across the US, Canada, Australia seem to ignore the actual lifestyle and costs in Europe. Only adults who still live with their parents and do not pay rent nor bills can sustain low work rates.

[#14]

Just remember the BigMacs to get some ideas about how people see their money and things.

See it this way... A BigMac is 35k in here, while it's $5+ in the US where it's 75k if converted to my money. So, people in the US pay 75k for a mere BigMac! 😳

I'll let clients know: I provide outstanding quality and exceptional service already, and if they buy my BigMac for 75k I'll give them even more! 

[#15]

2 factors determine this :

* how much value you can create and at what speed,

* what is your customer going to

do with your service and how much value they can create with the end product of theirs

if you get number 1 right, you can get paid really well by the people who got number 2 right

People who got number 2 right are more condensed in developed

countries. They still exist in developing countries too.

And you as a sole freelancer dont need to care about the whole

market, you just need a handful

of clients to reach your capacity cap

[#16]

The OP is a client. https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Loose-Money-in-Upwork/m-p/897417#M68195

[#17]

Thanks Cristine for the clarification. I'll leave my answer as is as i believe it contributes to the overall conversation. Clients pay very well everywhere if they can find a good use of your services. I always thought otherwise, until someone very near accepted to pay the same rate as clients in US and Canada.

[#18]

sorry I need to disagree on this.. most clients look at your origins. I bet so many Indian/pakistani freelancers here would agree to my comments. lol

[#19]

It's a very good move from your side to reach out to the community and ask about their experience. But in the end it's up to you to decide which answer you'll take and apply to your future. Nobody's going to take you to a new dimension unless you're willing to accept new facts provided to you by people from different backgrounds.

[#20]

Yeah, but I really want to try freelancing and get high paying clients like freelancers in western countries. I guess that would be hard for me since I am from a third world country. So it's never be about 'price to quality' but 'price to origin', right ??.

The big question is, why is it our problem if we can provide same skill of service hence as good quality as the developed nations do, but their living cost standard are higher ?

[#21]

Yeah, but I do want to get high paying clients as freelancer my self. I know how the hiring process work here very well, so in my head was like, so I should be able to get high paying clients like you guys living in expensive countries while I live in cheap country. But the fact is, most client care so much about your origin for an "unclear reason". 

[#22]

Ely B.,

You still haven't responded to this reality: "All things being equal, you shouldn't expect clients to look outside their own country for quality work at the same price as they can get from freelancers from their own country."

It's not about "developed" versus "undeveloped" countries. It's basic human nature.

Most German clients are not usually going to ignore all German freelancers in order to employ American freelancers just for the heck of it. British clients are not usually going to decide to work with Australian freelancers without thinking there is a tangible reason that UK freelancers can't do the work at a comparable price. National economic status is not always, or even usually, a major factor in these decisions; cultural, business and language differences, as well as time zone differences, are.

In business, the grass really isn't always greener on the other side (of national borders).

[#23]

Ely B.,

There is no reason to think just being from a "third world country," meaning not a "developed" country (however you define those terms), puts you at a disadvantage in winning quality jobs on Upwork.

In the nine months ended 9/30/22 nearly 14% of revenue was generated by freelancers from India, nearly 12% were generated by freelancers from the Philippines - lower cost-of-living countries, for sure. In some cases such freelancers can provide quality work at a lower cost than their Upwork competitors from the US, etc. and still be making a good living by their own local standards. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Those economics are at work in all global industries from auto manufacturers to textiles/clothing to children's  toys.

Upwork is no place for a person who's afraid of global competition to try to be successful.

"Origin" is not always irrelevant in making winning proposals, but that is often likely due to major differences in culture, language and other skill- and non-skill elements. (If I were looking for a voice-over freelancer for a nationwide ad campaign in the United States, I would not expect to hire a person who grew up in Scotland, South Carolina or the Bronx. Those are all "developed" countries, and fine places to live, no doubt, but that would be irrelevant to my choice of freelancer.)

If you live in a lower cost-of-living country and think you have skills and experience compared to excellent freelancers in high cost countries, you should welcome the chance to make a relatively lower bid that is still a good rate of pay for you. We know that is already happening considering that there are plenty of "high cost" freelancers on this message board complaining about their inability to match bids from low cost-of-living countries. 

[#24]

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Will L wrote:

We know that is already happening considering that there are plenty of "high cost" freelancers on this message board complaining about their inability to match bids from low cost-of-living countries. 

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That's exactly my question here, If there were three person offering same service with same good quality and other things are considerably the same, except their origin and price as follow :

1. Adam - Cheap country, $50

2. Bill - Cheap country, $500

3. Sarah - Expensive country, $500 

The client is from an expensive country were seeking for a designer.

So the real question is, why would the fact would this client goes for Sarah in most case ?

I have checked as a freelancer and client account, that would certainly be the case happening mostly. In my mind, the client would think, you are from a cheap country, why are you bidding at $500 ?? , so that is why I said "it is not our problem if we can provide the same skill of service hence as good quality as the developed nations do while their cost of living standard are higher there".

[#25]

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Ely B wrote:

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That's exactly my question here, If there were three person offering same service with same good quality and other things are considerably the same, except their origin and price as follow :

1. Adam - Cheap country, $50

2. Bill - Cheap country, $500

3. Sarah - Expensive country, $500 

The client is from an expensive country were seeking for a designer.

---

I very much doubt that you've ever actually found that much of a price difference between freelancers whose experience, training and work quality is identical. If that were true, the $500 freelancer would get no work at all, whereas the $50 freelancer would be so overrun with offers that he'd have no time to eat or sleep. In reality, "Adam" would probably charge only a little bit less than Bill and Sarah and gain a competitive advantage, while being able to live like a king in his country.

I live in an expensive country, but even here, the living wage (which is higher than the legal minimum wage) is about $13 U.S./hour, and you can find freelancers on Upwork who charge that much or less. So, while it might be difficult (though probably not impossible) to find an English freelancer for $3/hour, the price discrepency isn't as much as you seem to think. I've found UK clients who post projects in the UK-only marketplace with miniscule budgets, and they still get bids. 

If you want to be a highly-paid freelancer, then give clients a reason to pay you more. As you've already noticed, there are some very well-paid freelancers on Upwork who live in low cost-of-living countries, just as there are plenty of freelancers in developed countries who struggle to get hired no matter how little they charge. It sounds like you're just making excuses.

[#26]

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Christine A wrote:

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Ely B wrote:

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That's exactly my question here, If there were three person offering same service with same good quality and other things are considerably the same, except their origin and price as follow :

1. Adam - Cheap country, $50

2. Bill - Cheap country, $500

3. Sarah - Expensive country, $500 

The client is from an expensive country were seeking for a designer.

---

In reality, "Adam" would probably charge only a little bit less than Bill and Sarah and gain a competitive advantage, while being able to live like a king in his country.

So, while it might be difficult (though probably not impossible) to find an English freelancer for $3/hour, the price discrepency isn't as much as you seem to think.

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This is not true, see it your self in a client's account. You'll be surprise, why do you think I am making things up here ?!

In reality, there are more Adam (whom speaks english) than the other 2 guys. Because there are more people looking for jobs/money than the ones opening them.

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If you want to be a highly-paid freelancer, then give clients a reason to pay you more. As you've already noticed, there are some very well-paid freelancers on Upwork who live in low cost-of-living countries, just as there are plenty of freelancers in developed countries who struggle to get hired no matter how little they charge. It sounds like you're just making excuses.

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True, the only reason I can think of those guys are because they are lucky to find those freelancers... But I said, there are only few a few such successive freelancers like 'Bill in cheap country' who earns $500

but why would I make excuses ?! I have tried...

So you did not explain anything here why client would go for Sarah,