How would client profile details help you?

[anton_upwork1]

We’re exploring a potential new feature where we would ask clients for a bit more information about who they are, in addition to the usual job post details. We know talent in our Community have expressed a desire to see more information about clients so we wanted to reach out directly and see what information would be most helpful to you. 

Here are some questions we’d like to get your feedback on:

1. If we created a client profile, would you find such a client profile useful?
2. How would a client profile be useful to you?
3. What would you like to see in it? 
4. What do you wish job posts currently had to make you feel more confident in applying? 
5. For new clients who have 0 reviews and spend, would a client profile be more likely to encourage you to work with them?

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts as we explore features to make your experience even better! Please feel free to include additional ideas you have about client profiles you would like to share. 

[prestonhunter]

A case certainly could be made that:

- freelancers would like this information

- many clients wouldn't mind providing this information

- and therefore this should be something that clients could be allowed to provide

Especially if clients are willing to "suck it up" and ignore pests who contact them from outside of Upwork.

I don't know if this will ever happen.

But it IS a workable concept.

Some random freelancer or scammer contacts you via email or phone with their pitch: "Pleas sir I am developer I make your website for you"...

Just delete the email or hang up or delete the text message.

I get those every week when I'm NOT posting jobs on Upwork and NOT interested in hiring web developers. It's just spam.

[gilbert-phyllis]

---

Ken F wrote:

I understand Upwork’s rational motivation for maintaining secrecy.

I want to know more about a potential client, and I recognize that pre-hire corporate self-disclosure on Upwork will likely always be voluntary.

Welcome to the gig economy.

---

The gig economy is made up of independent contractors. While UW's terminology refers to "job postings" they are not jobs, they are projects. The people posting them are not potential employers, they are prospective clients. The people responding to them are not job candidates, they are small businesspeople exploring contract opportunities. HR protocols and conventions are more or less irrelevant. 

[dotticolvin]

Upwork needs to keep it simple because clients are busy or lazy ( haha) and no one likes filling in forms. ( at least I think no one does :D)  Some basic stats from the system would be useful to us freelancers as well as some basic background info from the client relating to their experience ( and whether they have any)  in the field they are trying to recruit in. 

This could be then used as a filter when searching for work. Ie if you love working with newbies and hate agencies for instance or vice versa.

I also agree with these points that were raised which would be useful stats:

• How many times has a client filed a dispute?
• How many times have freelancers filed a dispute against a client?
• How many times has a client gone to arbitration?
• How many times has a client initiated any formal refund request?

And this point that was raised:

• New clients will have no history to review, but these newbies might become better clients knowing that their interactions with their freelancers will be made public knowledge.

Someone mentioned that bad clients, with many disputes, spammers and other lowlife, can delete profiles and start again?! Is there a way to monitor this and potentially ban people from Upwork? 

Cheers!

[petra_r]

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Dotti C wrote:

I also agree with these points that were raised which would be useful stats:

• How many times has a client filed a dispute?
• How many times have freelancers filed a dispute against a client?
• How many times has a client gone to arbitration?
• How many times has a client initiated any formal refund request?

---

I would love to see that too but sadly I believe that chances of it happening are very slim.

If my chance it was introduced, this would then of course go along with similar stats on freelancer profiles, how many disputes, how many times was a change of feedback requested, how many times was the top rated perk used...

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Dotti C wrote:

Someone mentioned that bad clients, with many disputes, spammers and other lowlife, can delete profiles and start again?! Is there a way to monitor this and potentially ban people from Upwork? 

---

It's not allowed and if caught, such clients have to close the new account and reactivate the old one.

[gina-herrera]

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Petra R wrote:

---

Dotti C wrote:

Someone mentioned that bad clients, with many disputes, spammers and other lowlife, can delete profiles and start again?! Is there a way to monitor this and potentially ban people from Upwork? 

---

It's not allowed and if caught, such clients have to close the new account and reactivate the old one.

---

I had a client try to not pay me once, she ghosted on about a $500 bill and even though I was covered by payment protection when I asked Upwork if she would be removed from the site (she was suspended) they said no, as soon as she pays Upwork back the money they gave me for the work she would be reinstated, regardless of how much time had elapsed. Foolish but not surprising.

[tta192]

A really useful feature would be a mechanism to protect freelancers against credit card refund requests. Either through insurance or alternate payment methods or whatever - there would be a badge next to the client's name that would basically mean "there will be NO credit card refund requests from this client, under ANY circumstances. The only way to refund is through the normal dispute process on the platform." New clients with this badge would find it much easier to be taken seriously while building their job history.

[wlyonsatl]

Andrei T.,

That's an attractive idea but it wouldn't work.

Banks/credit card companies allow Upwork to accept their cards as payment under certain rules, one of which is that if a credit card holder (the Upwork client, in this case) claims their card has been fraudulently used to pay Upwork for a freelancer's services then Upwork may not have any choice about refunding the charge to the client. 

If Upwork's refuses to process all chargebacks it would not be allowed to accept payments through that credit card for any client.

[prestonhunter]

There IS a way to guarantee no chargebacks:

Use a payment method other than credit cards of paybacks.

Have you ever worked with a business that does NOT accept credit card or PayPal payments? Some restaurants don't. A landlord might now accept such. It is common for attorneys to NOT accept credit card or PayPal payments.

Why do they do this? A major reason is that if they only accept checks or cash, there can be no credit card/PayPal chargeback.

As long as nearly all client payments to Upwork are done through credit card/PayPal, there is no way that Upwork can "guarantee" that a client won't do a credit card chargeback.

To it's credit, Upwork rules state that clients can NOT do credit card/PayPal chargebacks. If a client does that, then the client's account will be suspended or terminated. But Upwork can't actually prevent a client from being going directly to the bank/PayPal to file a chargeback with them.

Upwork doesn't allow non-Upwork payments. So freelancers can NOT make alternative arrangements with clients. Which means that right now there is no way for a freelancer to avoid the POSSIBILITY of a credit card/PayPal chargeback.

But of course I would LIKE it if there was a way.

[petra_r]

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Will L wrote:

If Upwork's refuses to process all chargebacks it would not be allowed to accept payments through that credit card for any client.

---

Upwork doesn't get a choice. When a cardholder's bank does a chargeback, the money is removed. There is no "allowing to accept" or approval or "refusal to process". The money simply reverses back to the card issuer/bank.. 

A chargeback is immediate and can only be disputed/defended. "Unauthorized use" charge backs are incredibly difficult to defend. "Not received" and "Not as described a little (!) more easily.

[tta192]

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Petra R wrote:

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Will L wrote:

If Upwork's refuses to process all chargebacks it would not be allowed to accept payments through that credit card for any client.

---

Upwork doesn't get a choice. When a cardholder's bank does a chargeback, the money is removed. There is no "allowing to accept" or approval or "refusal to process". The money simply reverses back to the card issuer/bank.. 

A chargeback is immediate and can only be disputed/defended. "Unauthorized use" charge backs are incredibly difficult to defend. "Not received" and "Not as described a little (!) more easily.

---

That may be the case, but if the client pays through other methods it doesn't apply anymore. Then a client account (or a single job liked to such a payment method) can be clearly marked as "safe from chargebacks".

[petra_r]

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Andrei T wrote:

---

---

That may be the case, but if the client pays through other methods it doesn't apply anymore. Then a client account (or a single job liked to such a payment method) can be clearly marked as "safe from chargebacks".

---

What "other methods"? Cards and PayPal and US banks all chargeback upon request. There are no other available payment methods. Also, chargebacks are so rare in the overall scheme of things it would just cause alarm if some clients were marrked as "safe from..." because it would make freelancers feel all other clients weren't safe.

There is no such thing as "safe from chargebacks" with the currently available payment methods.

[wlyonsatl]

Petra,

You have absolutely no way of knowing that chargebacks by clients are "so rare" (whatever that means).

For the first 3 months of 2021 Upwork reported a loss of $1.2 million on "transaction losses," which Upwork outlines as including "unauthorized use of credit or debit cards" and "clients (who) fail to pay freelancers." Managment expects the number for the full year will be greater than 4 x $1.2 million, which would be nearly $5.0 million.

So no matter how "rare" chargebacks are, Upwork management no doubt wishes they were a good deal rarer, considering the $1.2 million number was a signficant portion of Upwork's $7.8 million loss for the quarter.

[petra_r]

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Will wrote:

For the first 3 months of 2021 Upwork reported a loss of $1.2 million on "transaction losses," which Upwork outlines as including "unauthorized use of credit or debit cards" and "clients (who) fail to pay freelancers."

---

The $1.2 Million aren't anywhere near all  or even mostly related to chargebacks. Chargebacks are included, but the majority is simple non-payment.

This was confirmed by Upwork repeatedly year in and year out so I don't see what your point is. 

Chargebacks are, in the overall scheme of things, indeed rare. With a little bit of maths you can work out whether something is a significant percentage of revenue or not.

According to Upwork, transaction losses (ALL transaction losses including chargebacks) were "remaining flat at 1%" 

Also according to Upwork "Provision for transaction losses consists primarily of losses resulting from fraud and bad debt expense associated with our trade and client receivables balance and transaction losses associated with chargebacks"

---

So no matter how "rare" chargebacks are, Upwork management no doubt wishes they were a good deal rarer, 

---

Of course they do. That's a no-brainer. Every business wishes for less or no chargebacks.

But a "safe from chargeback" badge won't make chargebacks go away, and with them making up such a tiny percentage of revenue, there wouldn't be any point in some such badge on job posts or a client profile, even if that was practical or doable, which it isn't.

[tta192]

Petra R wrote:

......

Chargebacks are, in the overall scheme of things, indeed rare. With a little bit of maths you can work out whether something is a significant percentage of revenue or not.

According to Upwork, transaction losses (ALL transaction losses including chargebacks) were "remaining flat at 1%" 

....

---

OP asked about ways to make new clients appear more trustworthy, not about reducing losses; the goal is to create a smoother onboarding process for clients who would then generate more revenue for Upwork and freelancers.

There being only a tiny fraction of chargebacks compared to the total number of transactions is not relevant - the perceived risk remains and affects how new clients are treated initially: many freelancers won't bid on their jobs, and when they do they won't engage in a meaningful way until they feel the other party can be trusted.

Even if this was difficult to solve it's still worth researching - there is at least one payment method I know of not supporting chargebacks, and I'm sure other implementations are possible.

[petra_r]

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Andrei T wrote:

-there is at least one payment method I know of not supporting chargebacks, 

---

One that is accepted on Upwork?

And my main point remains: Why frighten freelancers about chargebacks? 

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Andrei T wrote:

and I'm sure other implementations are possible.

---

Implement a new billing method to add a badge that tells them that they're safe from something that likely hadn't even crossed their mind in the first place? 

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Andrei T wrote:

the perceived risk remains and affects how new clients are treated initially: many freelancers won't bid on their jobs, and when they do they won't engage in a meaningful way until they feel the other party can be trusted.

---

The perceived risk isn't usually chargebacks though, it's all the other stuff we check before applying, such as feedback received and given, hire rate, rates paid and so on. 

[lysis10]

I'm in a situation now where seeing client profiles would be really helpful. I'm 90% sure this one guy is gonna turn into a screamer. It was a direct contact situation and I'm not getting great vibes but it could just be because he's new to Upwork. If I could see this, then it would explain that he's new or he thinks he's pulling one over on me. I'd really like to know so I can decide, but we can't see anything about direct contact clients.

[dc005c9f]

I'll try again.

I've received invitations to interview with contract descriptions that range from "we need X, Y, and Z" to four-paragraph descriptors with a five-figure fixed-price offering.  These invite me to "tell us about similar projects."  It's a fair question, especially when I know something about what the potential client does.  As often as not, the descriptor is sufficiently generic that it could apply to a range of end-user industry needs. Since the devil is, in fact, in the details, neither party can know if there is a fit at this level until the potential client supplies additional information.

Further, most of my work requires me to, eventually, have access to the data crown jewels of the company. I cannot do my work via Zoom, phone, Upwork messaging, and file exchange.  I need to know I'm not walking into a den of the unscrupulous or even merely incompetent for my own reputational protection.

In my case, knowing something about the company even before the interview can make the overall relationship smoother for both parties...which must be one of the underlying design principles of Upwork---it's what service brokers do.

I don't expect to get this information from Upwork; I only know how it helps me serve a potential client. In the initial instance, it grants them the maximum respect possible for their time. Through time, many of my clients want an open-ended relationship with a variable time commitment on their part and an "answer now" commitment from me.  It's akin to the relationship I have with my attorney. (Luv u Jim). Starting with knowledge of who they are can help, that's all.

I'm sensible to Upwork's legitimate fear of losing control of the process and unsavory parties on either side stealing stuff...well, my wife is a public speaker and teacher. Every time she speaks, the chance exists that her hard-developed content will be copied, tweaked just enough to avoid copyright violation. It's a choice she makes because perfect protection means zero income for her.

I appreciate that Upwork asks this sort of question from its clientele.

[roberty1y]

I think it would be better to encourage clients to provide information about the jobs they post, rather than about themselves. That would be far more useful. At least half the job posts are hopelessly vague. It would save a lot of wasted connects if the clients described what they want done more clearly and were more open about what they are willing to pay for it.

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Robert Y wrote:

I think it would be better to encourage clients to provide information about the jobs they post, rather than about themselves. That would be far more useful. At least half the job posts are hopelessly vague. It would save a lot of wasted connects if the clients described what they want done more clearly and were more open about what they are willing to pay for it.

---

I agree. Between the ones who don't quite know what they are looking for in specific terms, the ones who know but are inexperienced hiring contract support and don't understand what they need to share, and the ones who are generally feckless, the proportion of unanswerable job posts is way too high. I have found that across the first two categories noted above, many clients are educable but it takes some investment of time and connects to sift them out. I made that investment early on. Now that I get a more consistent diet of good invitations, I rarely do. It would be great if UW offered better guidance for clients about spec'ing their projects -- category-specific guidance, ideally, because software developers need different info from technical editors who need different info from translators who need different info from graphic designers, etc.

As for information about the client and their organization, for me that discovery process is intertwined with my own vetting process. Ideally, I am looking for clients who are comfortable engaging in a mutual get-acquainted interaction. 

Robert, you asked earlier what I consider red flags in job posts. I rarely respond to ones that include UW's suggested canned questions, e.g. Tell us about similar projects you've done, or What suggestions do you have to make this successful? Every primary research project with consumers is like every other one and each one is also unique. Ditto B2B research. Ditto ghost-writing as a SME. And 99% of the time my work product is proprietary and confidential. So, I consider it a waste of time trying to answer the first question in an UW proposal -- which is short attention span theater at its purest. And anybody who wants to know the complete answer to the second question needs to hire me -- that's what my leventy-seven years of experience is worth. Also, I have a kind of reverse-SEO response to certain words and phrases... ninja, rock star, passionate, help us build... those all make me scroll faster.

[dyumnin]

Three factors affect my decision to bid,

1. Client History

2. Client Organisation

3. Client Budget.

Most people have already discussed #1 so I will focus on the other two aspects.

Suppose I see a turnkey project for a "fixed cost turnkey control board for a autonomous vehicle design, final product should be delivered to client location" My decision to bid and the bid cost will depend on whether the client is:

1. NASA and location is Mars.
2. Tata Motors and location is Delhi, India
3.  Gupta Toy maker Bangalore,
4. Someone who cannot afford a $20 product and is checking whether a freelancer can build it for $10

For #1, I know that the task cannot be completely done by a freelancer and will see what can be split between a freelancer and the client.

For #2, I know that a team is required, and propose a milestone based project instead of a single contractor hourly work.

For #3 & #4 I know the unit product cost does not justify the engineering expenses, So I will need proof that the client is looking at volume production(and hence will be able to pay for the engineering cost running in $xxxx) for me to decide to spend the time in crafting a detailed bid.

Quite a few projects that I have bid on turned out to be #4, the product is already available in the market, the client has a requirement for limited number of pieces and is looking for a bargain!

[roberty1y]

Phyllis G wrote: 

Also, I have a kind of reverse-SEO response to certain words and phrases... ninja, rock star, passionate, help us build... those all make me scroll faster.

I keep coming across these lame clichés when scrolling through the job feed. Somebody somewhere must have told these clients that you can flatter a hard-up freelancer into working for $6 an hour by suggesting they're a ninja or a rock star. 

[dotticolvin]

Haha, I'm with you on that one. The clients from hell radar! How about 'A great portfolio piece.' or   'If this goes well I'll pay you properly next time'... run away. haha. Yes, Upwork would do well to give a code of conduct to clients. get them to sign the ' I promise to be a decent human being' certificate before they proceed. A lot of the clients on here need educating. I wish Upwork understood the potential they have!

[gina-herrera]

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Phyllis G wrote:

---

Robert, you asked earlier what I consider red flags in job posts. I rarely respond to ones that include UW's suggested canned questions, e.g. Tell us about similar projects you've done, or What suggestions do you have to make this successful? 

---

Ugh, when people ask "do you have any questions about the job description" AND "What questions do you have about the project?" it's automatically a no from me. If you're too dim to realize those are practically exactly the same question (which Upwork has not, apparently) then I can't even be bothered.

[dotticolvin]

Yes, that's a very good point about this particular canned question. "What suggestions do you have to make this successful? " - as this is like asking for free work. Yes, interview me and then we can talk about this aspect. Even better, hire me, and then I'll give you some blinding suggestions based on my years of experience.  What a question. Come on Upwork get it together! 😄 

[2804]

 i think i am better for clients due to my expereince and because  if finishing work on time and i can better give him the kind of thing he wants.

[02d3e798]

Hi 

I have come across clients that know what they would like but are buying something for the first time, in my case its usually bespoke software. It would be great to have a question for them to answer to say "Have you bought this type of product or service before?" That way I get a feel for their experience as that is where I find inexperience can lead to problems down the line on projects.

Thanks

[dotticolvin]

Hi, 

Personally, I would be interested to know, not necessarily the exact details of the client's business but whether they are a business or not. Also whether they already have ANY experience either on or OFF the Upwork platform in the field that they are trying to recruit in.

For instance, I am an illustrator and cartoonist and there are plenty of people asking for an illustrator to illustrate their 'fantastic' kids book...So I'd be VERY interested to know their level of experience before I get involved. Usually but not always it's fairly clear from the level of the detail they put in their announcement, but it's guess work. 

I've worked in my field for 20 years, and it says so on my profile. So I would like the ability to avoid some newbie client is trying to tell me what to do when they have no clue how it all works because they have never done it before. I prefer to work with other professionals.  For instance:  have they already written a book, are they already published, have they commissioned other illustrators either on or OFF Upwork ( yes there is a production world off Upwork too :D), or have they written a book for their kid and they've never commissioned or employed anyone in their life before.

Seasoned or newbie?   

This is important. It can make the difference between a great job and one from hell.  Upwork could even add a filter that shows business clients, individual contractors, and ''new to all of this'' clients. That way, we freelancers can understand just how much we need to explain to a new client ( rights, licensing, how the process of design works) and go into interviews and contracts with our eyes open,  and fundamentally choose whether we want to or not without wasting time and energy writing applications to spammers. 

1. Experience level

2. location ( time zones and the ability to communicate are affected by this) 

3. relevant experience to this job ( on or off Upwork) 

And when they write a post:

1 What are they looking for. Their needs. 

And get rid of those idiot stock questions for freelancers like.  Why do you think your skills are relevant to this project'. 😄  Come on guys!! If a client doesn't know what they want to ask they are a disaster from the beginning.  Up the game. Upwork could really set the barto be a professional freelancing network, if you treat people like professionals.

Ok that's my two pennies worth. 😄 Have a cartoon too. 

Cheers

Dotti 

[petra_r]

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Dotti C wrote:

Ok that's my two pennies worth. 😄 Have a cartoon too. 

---

That is absolutely excellent!! You're really good at that stuff!

[dotticolvin]

Thanks!:D

[researchediting]

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Dotti C wrote:

Upwork could even add a filter that shows business clients, individual contractors, and ''new to all of this'' clients.

---

I like.

[tilogeo]

It might be helpful for freelancers to be able to give some text feedback about a client that clients can't see but freelancers can see when they are applying for a contract.

I had a client once that seemed to be really certifiably crazy. I completed a programming challenge with three other developers in competition for the same position. Despite being his choice to continue the development, his behavior was so odd and concerning I had to bow out from selection. He then began to threaten me with having harmed his business for not continuing with the contract, suggesting he would sue me for harming his business by not continuing the work.

I fully refunded every minute of the contract in fear of reprisal but had no good way of notifying other developers privately to beware.

[dotticolvin]

Totally agree. It's what we freelancers do in the real world: warn each other about potential nutcases, so it would be great to have a secret way to do it within our community online.

Upwork may be scared to instigate this for fear of eventually losing ( nutty)  clients, but in the long run, they will gain a better calibre of client and a better reputation which for themselves which will translate into better business. yey.

[kinector]

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Alex M wrote:

It might be helpful for freelancers to be able to give some text feedback about a client that clients can't see but freelancers can see when they are applying for a contract.

I had a client once that seemed to be really certifiably crazy. I completed a programming challenge with three other developers in competition for the same position. Despite being his choice to continue the development, his behavior was so odd and concerning I had to bow out from selection. He then began to threaten me with having harmed his business for not continuing with the contract, suggesting he would sue me for harming his business by not continuing the work.

I fully refunded every minute of the contract in fear of reprisal but had no good way of notifying other developers privately to beware.

---

What a story, Alex! 😳

I've got some invitations to such jobs and rejected all of them without even reading past "competition" or "test" which is usually followed by some obviously empty promises about long-term work (which I read the first time, maybe).

At the end of the day, let's think about which one is crazier: A client behaving completely crazy or a freelancer working for a completely crazy client? 🤪

PS. I'm a completely crazy guy and my filtering process for new clients requires them to be at least a little crazy. But I suspect it's a bit different kind of crazy from what you experienced. 😭

[crart]

Finally. The issue with clients having freelancer's profile given on a plate and freelancer not knowing anything about client is kind of not professional. It is business relationship after all, both parties need knowledge abut the other.

For your questions:

1. Obviously useful.

2. Depends on what you require from clients to share, I mean clients are already not required much, except for (timely) payment. See below answer forwhat I would like to see in client's profile.

3. Client's history of all contracts just like they see mine, their background just like they see mine, their lifetime spendings on Upwork just like they see my earnings, their Job Success Score just like they see mine, their feedback received just like they see mine. Also, their hire rate should directly influence their score so I can see if they just post tens of "jobs" and forget or really look for freelancers to complete projects. I would like to also see their reply rate to freelancers' proposals to their projects.

4. Oh my, that's a huge topic since so many clients ignore any logic in their "projects". I sent multiple suggestions over the years, none implemented so I'm kinda convinced that requiring anything from clients is like a taboo but here we go (please note this is for my field I work in, which is illustration! there surely are other requirements needed for other areas of freelancers expertise):

- expected deadline

- preferred type of illustration - meaning if they write "do me a picture" they go straight to my imaginative trash bin; they must know what they want

- estimated amount of needed images and their size, or size of the book printed or anything that can give me an idea about it (is it huge banner? or pocket book? some don't see a difference...)

- the purpose of illustrations - print, e-book etc.

These above may seem silly (yet they can be made into simple checklist to fill by client when creating post - but please no answers like "TBD", "not sure" etc - either they want project to be done or they shouldn't really bother) but I have met too many clients that simply had no idea what they wanted and expected me to "know" what they want while of course it appeared no matter what I came up with, it was "not what they wanted"

- expected amount of revisions - this is crucial to finally implement to Upwork; I am sick and tired of minuscule adjustments making in the end around 50 revisions because client approved sketch, they approved rough color version, I proceed to full painting and details and suddenly they require changing the very basic of illustration structure that they already approved in a sketch, this is ridiculous. Max amount of revisions, any revisions extra cost additionally, these things are not done with clicking "enter" button.

5. Very much yes. If I see a client with not verified payment method, no hires, no feedback and literally nothing, even his real name, I am not even reading the post. That is, in the surrent system. If I could see what they have in profile, how they describe themselves, what they need (job post requirements) - then I can judge if they are serious and just starting (as we all started out somehow) or just trolling around.

Honestly, I do not have much faith that any of these will be implemented. See, clients have so many privileges and they are so used to them that suddenly requiring them to do their part of the job may be a shock.

[gina-herrera]

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Olga P wrote:

Honestly, I do not have much faith that any of these will be implemented. See, clients have so many privileges and they are so used to them that suddenly requiring them to do their part of the job may be a shock.

---

Why would they implement things so specific to illustration only... common sense dictates that what people ask for needs to be generally universal in every category.

[crart]

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Gina H wrote:

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Olga P wrote:

Honestly, I do not have much faith that any of these will be implemented. See, clients have so many privileges and they are so used to them that suddenly requiring them to do their part of the job may be a shock.

---

Why would they implement things so specific to illustration only... common sense dictates that what people ask for needs to be generally universal in every category.

---

And I said that already, that my points were concerning my field I work in.

[wlyonsatl]

Olga P.,

My standard proposal includes a list of six questions and I have a checklist I fill out when I have my first conversation with a prospective client. (I never agree to work for a client I have not spoken to at least once.)

I suspect that prospective clients who see they cannot answer these six questions don't even reply to my proposals, which is fine with me.

Upwork could develop some specific job descriptors for clients to include in their job descriptions, but I expect they'd be as useless as the canned questions clients can include for freelancers to answer in their proposals. (I will respond to those questions, but do so with canned responses while beginning to doubt that I want to work for such a clueless client who doesn't know their own project well enough to ask me original questions.)

I'm happy to make clients show me they are people I want to work with and don't expect Upwork to screen them out for me. But I would like a lot more transparency about prospective clients' own history of project completions, cancellations, demand for refunds, requests for mediation and utilizing arbitration. Yes, new clients will have no history for me to review, but these newbies might become better clients knowing that their interactions with their freelancers will be made public.

Knowing that they can get away with mistreating freelancers must give some comfort to the small  minority of Upwork clients who are bullies, thieves, clowns and otherwise clueless. I have been fortunate to only work with a handful among my 350+ clients over the years, but my relatively high project values probably weed more than a few of them out so I don't have to.

[crart]

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Will L wrote:

Olga P.,

My standard proposal includes a list of six questions and I have a checklist I fill out when I have my first conversation with a prospective client. (I never agree to work for a client I have not spoken to at least once.)

I suspect that prospective clients who see they cannot answer these six questions don't even reply to my proposals, which is fine with me.

Upwork could develop some specific job descriptors for clients to include in their job descriptions, but I expect they'd be as useless as the canned questions clients can include for freelancers to answer in their proposals. (I will respond to those questions, but do so with canned responses while beginning to doubt that I want to work for such a clueless client who doesn't know their own project well enough to ask me original questions.)

I'm happy to make clients show me they are people I want to work with and don't expect Upwork to screen them out for me. But I would like a lot more transparency about prospective clients' own history of project completions, cancellations, demand for refunds, requests for mediation and utilizing arbitration. Yes, new clients will have no history for me to review, but these newbies might become better clients knowing that their interactions with their freelancers will be made public.

Knowing that they can get away with mistreating freelancers must give some comfort to the small  minority of Upwork clients who are bullies, thieves, clowns and otherwise clueless. I have been fortunate to only work with a handful among my 350+ clients over the years, but my relatively high project values probably weed more than a few of them out so I don't have to.

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All good but what about starting out freelancers? I'm happy you were born with ability to weed out trash clients at the start but freelancers that do not have this ability often are used and abused. Should they be left alone because "don't expect Upwork to screen them out for me"? We are screened out. We are verified. We have our profile served clean. And clients? Just because you don't need a feature doesn't mean it is not needed. I have 13 years experience in freelance work for various clients around the world but when I was starting, it often was tough.

[wlyonsatl]

Olga,

Every freelancer here had their first day of work on Upwork.

But Upwork is not a good place for freelancers who are new to actually working in their area of expertise. Just taking certain subjects in school or university is very different than being paid to do real world projects where those subjects have some relevance. A new freelancers is at a huge disadvantage if (s)he has no idea what real world clients will expect of them or what they should expect from those clients.

If a freelancer can't design a set of questions they need answered before they will accept a project or the freelancer can't communicate well with clients before agreeing to accept a new contract from a client, then succeeding on Upwork will be an uphill battle, assuming that freelancer ever succeeds here.

[crart]

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Will L wrote:

Olga,

Every freelancer here had their first day of work on Upwork.

But Upwork is not a good place for freelancers who are new to actually working in their area of expertise. Just taking certain subjects in school or university is very different than being paid to do real world projects where those subjects have some relevance. A new freelancers is at a huge disadvantage if (s)he has no idea what real world clients will expect of them or what they should expect from those clients.

If a freelancer can't design a set of questions they need answered before they will accept a project or the freelancer can't communicate well with clients before agreeing to accept a new contract from a client, then succeeding on Upwork will be an uphill battle, assuming that freelancer ever succeeds here.

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Aye. Let's just state Upwork is for veterans only and absolutely set absolute minimum of proven freelance carreer to be even able to register as a freelancer. Don't you think it is a bit too far? To protect clients who already are at great advantage, people like you will get rid of freelancers that are just starting out. Perhaps predatory behavior is something normal in business but I still believe by enforcing it, we harm ourselves in the long run.