More competitive than ever or broken?

[vepa_durdiyev]

Hey there. I have been on Upwork for almost a decade and have climbed the ladder up to Expert Vetted. I have completed over 78 projects and maintained a stellar reputation. 

Upwork always was a competitive open market,  but lately, it feels like things are just getting out of control. Just consider the two screenshots below. I am not complaining, and I am legit asking for your advice. How do you keep up with this? I feel like a dinosaur competing against bots. As if I am a human stock trader trying to compete with nano-second trading bots on the NY stock exchange. 

A job was placed less than an hour ago and already has +50 proposals. And bids for the posts are already over the 200 range. Upwork doesn't even let you buy 200 connects. You need multiple purchases for that. 

It doesn't matter how excellent my profile is at this point. I am buried under a copy-paste spam and connect-whales. 

I have earned almost half a million on Upwork, and I can afford the connections. Should I join them against my beliefs if I can't beat them?

How do you stand out? How do you beat this? 

Vepa

[25005175]

Those high bids might be from Agencies, which can purchase larger bundles. And I have zero doubt that the "basic web app" talent pool is one of the largest on the platform.

[vepa_durdiyev]

Hah, never knew that. Thanks, Jonathan. I was wondering how they bid +200, as I can max purchase 150. Connect economy is broken, needs a patch and a rebalance. Looks like Upwork can learn something from online game economies lol.

[nmelssx]

I haven't gotten a single job ever since they changed the bidding system. Used to get a least 1 new job every week. If an Expert Vetted with over $400,000 in earnings is having this much problem getting new jobs, then there's definitely something wrong with the system, and something needs to change or a lot of users will leave this platform for other similar ones.

I have completely stopped using the bidding system for the top 3 spots. Used to use them for at least 20% or so of my proposals, but there's no point trying to bid for them now, with these kinds of ridiculous bids.

[vepa_durdiyev]

I am still getting jobs, but I have to grind 2x or 3x my usual amount. But I feel you and see how this can be discouraging, I hope the situation improves for us all.

[williamtcooper]

Hey Vepa, don't apply to that type of post. I only apply to posts that have 15 or less proprosals and that seems to be my sweet spot for being seen. Thanks!

[feed_my_eyes]

You don't have a choice in certain categories. Every job post in my category has more than 15 bids within minutes of being posted. And bids aren't listed in the order that they're received anyway; even if there are less than 10 bids when you send your proposal, by the time the client starts going through them, you could be at the bottom of a list of 50.

[kbadeau]

Do you not get invitations? It seems like you would get them up the wazoo. I'd say 95% of my work is from previous clients and invitations.

[feed_my_eyes]

From May through July I got zero invitations. It's picked up a bit since then, but still not at the level that it was at in past years. And I used to win about 10-20% of the projects that I bid on, and now it's 2%. I do get work from previous clients and non-Upwork clients, so I realise that I'm not in the same precarious position as some freelancers, yet it's worrying that a previously reliable source of leads can no longer be relied upon. But, that's life.

[7d90e6df]

Invitations only go out to people who where actually able to prove their worth, i have been here for months and have nothing to show for it.

[vepa_durdiyev]

Hey William, thanks for the suggestion. But in Web Dev category, that is not really feasible. I think you missed a part where a job was posted less than an hour ago. I have seen posts getting +50 proposals within 10 minutes of posting. Even if I sit by the feed and react instantly, by the time I write a custom handcrafted proposal, I am already too late. As people will spam with a copy paste and I am already buried underneath it.

[yofazza]

> I have seen posts getting +50 proposals within 10 minutes of posting.

It's true, and the copypasted or botted proposals CAN get clients (they won't do it if doesn't!). Here's a proof. Some clients are clueless, they are the target for those proposals. Not all of them will end up ranting in the client forum so no problem from Upwork's POV.

Just remember your perfectly orchestrated proposal (tutorials for this are everywhere) can simply be uninteresting for some type of clients.

> As people will spam with a copy paste and I am already buried underneath it.

There's another thing, probably, the secret algo in determining proposals rank/positions. I've been looking at proposal view vs sent ratio and most of them from what I can see, are below 30%. Some are above, but not much. A small portion (2 here and 1 in Reddit) gets near 50%, where all 3 of them are new members.

The view vs sent ratio is something hard for us to interfere. It goes before the discussion of how greatly written the proposal is (except for the first 2 lines).  If the ratio is low for all members, most clients just don't read most proposals. If it's not that low for new members, the algo might have something to do with it.

Well I know there are also new members that never get clients, but in this case there's a flock of old members came and complained. Of course not all of them, some/most are still getting clients probably, just like some/most new members never get clients.

Don't bash me, Upwork is being secretive so expect people to create assumptions.:p

[vepa_durdiyev]

I have a client account too, and hire regularly. The list of applicants seems to be broken too. 90% of the people who applied are marked as "best match" by Upwork. If everyone is the best match, no one is. Very weird.

[25005175]

If everyone is the best match, no one is.

---

I like your Syndrome mis-quote.

[b37f43dc]

I hear you. It is challenging to get your proposal seen in the sea copy-paste spam and connect-whales.

[kbadeau]

I don't know if I'm super picky or super lucky but I've boosted my bid exactly twice and got a job out of one of those. And I did it for 12 connects. 😳

[25005175]

I edge towards super-lucky: clearly that client knew what they were doing.

I was going to say that, then I re-read this discussion that I was going to reference which has been updated since I last visited it. Considering my own stats, I'd say that it is a mixed bag. It might have to do with one's earnings/work history as well - I clearly got more views from boosts, but it didn't translate into more interviews/hires (most of these were before I had a JSS and before my JSS dropped to 70 from one client.)

[deborah-ponzio]

I am not sure of how accurate the stats on proposals views actually are. Since the feature was deployed, during the past months I have noticed that in cases when I received responses to proposals, sometimes they were not reflected in the views stats, which accounted to 0. Might that be a case of pop-up or cookies activation by the clients? Anyway, I do not trust them 100%. 

[25005175]

They don't include any views/interviews/hires that result from invitations. Nor do they include any "propose new contract" hires.

[vepa_durdiyev]

I think the industry is the main factor here. But definitely luck too, unfortunately.

[df602768]

There are more freelancers than ever before on Upwork.