Unauthorized refund

[0d4ed13e]

Hi, last week my contract with my client got suspended I told her and she fixed it immediately. The second time, I finished my work for her for 5 hours and got suspended again but this time I got no reply from her. This morning Upwork notified me that I refunded her without my permission. Also, the tasks were done. I feel robbed 😞 Upwork should also protect freelancers from this kind of clients having trouble with their cards etc. and double checking the work before the unauthorized refund. This is so unfair.

[tlsanders]

You weren't wrong to trust Upwork. The problem is that Upwork said "We will offer mediation and the option of arbitration to protect your payment if funds are in escrow." 

Then, you went ahead without funds in escrow (probably your dishonest client knows how Upwork works and knew he could get away with this). And then you say, "Upwork, you said you would protect me!" But, they didn't. They said they would protect you to the extent of funds in escrow. 

It sounds like you need to take some time to learn more about how Upwork works before you look for any more jobs, o ryou will likely get scammed again.

[08edbb6d]

The project is on fixed price but client added milstone on it. 

[tlsanders]

When you have milestones on a project, you need to only do as much work as one milestone covers, then wait until the milestone is approved and there is another funded milestone open to do more work. Never do more work than the current funded milestone pays for.

[08edbb6d]

Ok maam thanks

[80858ca1]

I had a job that the clients payment did not go through. The earnings never hit my account, yet Upwork has taken the refunded earnings out of earnings from another job. Upwork support is so slow and doesn't even address my questions or concerns. They respond with canned answers that don't even apply to my situation (telling me to verify my identity which I've already done). Has anyone had these issues?

[PradeepH]

Hi Caitlin,

I am sorry to hear about the reversal. I can see that you're already communicating with the relevant team via a support ticket regarding your concern. You can access your support tickets here. Please don't hesitate to follow up with them directly on the same support ticket if you have additional questions regarding your concern. Note that support requests are responded to in the order they are received. Kindly allow 24-48 hours for the team to follow up with you and assist you further.

Thank you,
Pradeep

[kalimacca]

Hello, I have completed a contract for a client successfully, which was closed 35 days ago. However, I have now received threats from the client stating that they are unsatisfied with the work and demanding a refund. They have also mentioned the possibility of filing a chargeback if their request is not met. 

Additionally, I have received an email from the Informal Mediation team. They informed me that the client is requesting a refund, and if the refund is not provided, they will consider filing a chargeback from their bank.

I wanted to inquire whether an external chargeback can be applied to hourly contracts that have already been closed? Please share your thoughts and advice me. Thanks!

[yofazza]

Yes, even months after.

[0094155e]

This morning, I received a payment of $100 from a client. Since I needed the money, I transferred it to my Payoneer account. However, in the evening, I received an email from Upwork stating that I had refunded $100 to the client, resulting in a negative balance in my Upwork account. I reached out to the client to inquire if they had requested the refund, and they confirmed that they did not. Additionally, they have not received the refunded amount in their account. Please guide me on what to do. Have I lost the money?

[ArjayM]

Hi Abid,

I'm sorry to learn about this experience. Unfortunately, when the client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours not covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed. Please check out this help article for more information. It looks like the team has sent an automatic notification via email with more details on the issue. Feel free to coordinate by responding to the email, and they will surely assist you accordingly.

[0094155e]

I appreciate your response, but what I'm trying to understand is the destination of the funds. My client have not recieved them yet.

[PradeepH]

Hi Abid,

I checked the job you are referring to and noticed that the client's payment was unsuccessful. We have already notified you about the same via a support ticket. You can access your support tickets here. Please don't hesitate to follow up with them on the same support ticket if you have additional questions regarding your concern. Note that support requests are responded to in the order they are received. Kindly allow 24-48 hours for the team to follow up with you and assist you further.

Thank you,
Pradeep

[0094155e]

I am unable to understand how I received $100 in my Upwork account if the client's payment was unsuccessful.

[cassiahjj]

Hiya 

Upwork automatically refunded a client the amount I was paid because they said there was an issue with the client's card. 

I've messaged the client to see if they can pay to resolve the issue. 

My concern is that I'm now negative money on my Upwork balance (as when the money first came through, it was automatically sent through to my bank account), and I want to make sure that when the client repays, that will go down? Will it lower my rating or anything? 

Thanks so much, 

Cassiah 

[LuiggiR]

Hi Cassiah,

Unfortunately, when the client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours not covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed. When this happens, an automatic notification is sent, but the team will also contact you directly via email with more information about your specific account.

If the client repays this amount, it will be added to your balance. Essentially, if you have a negative balance before receiving any payment, it will go down. Additionally, the transaction itself does not have any impact on your Job Success Score. You can learn how your JSS is calculated here.

[cassiahjj]

Thanks - I think the client is planning on repaying as a "bonus payment". I think they're waiting for the refund to come back into their bank before repaying. Is there an issue with waiting with the negative balance until the client can repay? Cause additionally it takes the days to process it.

I just want to make sure that while I'm waiting for the client to repay, which could take another week or two, I won't get penalised?

Thank you!

[ArjayM]

Hi Cassiah,

Arjay here stepping in for Luiggi. Yes! Bonus payment is one of the options to settle the issue. However, the client can still reprocess a payment even without waiting for the refund to be posted on their original billing method. Don't worry! You won't get penalized for this issue.

[0094155e]

On Wednesday, I received a payment of $100 from a client. However, later in the evening, I received an email from Upwork stating that I had refunded $100 to the client. Perplexed, I responded to Upwork asking for an explanation. Their response clarified that the transaction was not a successful payment from the client's payment method and that the $100 was never actually deducted from their account. Instead, Upwork processed a reversal internally, which appeared as a "Refund" in my transaction history, even though no payment was taken from the client. My question is, if the client's payment was unsuccessful, how did I receive $100 in my Upwork account?

[spectralua]

No. You have working for free.

[feed_my_eyes]

Your client could have used a stolen credit card, Upwork charged it, then the rightful owner noticed unusual charges, reported it, and got a refund. Or, the client was the rightful credit card holder, decided that they didn't like your work, and asked their bank for a chargeback. Was there any indication that the client was unhappy? Did you try sending them a message about this?

It's understandably upsetting to get an email from Upwork saying that YOU refunded the client, when obviously you did no such thing. I've never understood why they can't change the language to more clearly explain. I'm sorry that this happened to you.

[mclaassen]

A client I did some small work who  was later placed on hold by Upwork. In the mean time I got this notification. I did NOT authorize a refund. I want to be paid for my time because they asked me to work immediately and I did. How can I get paid? 

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[wlyonsatl]

Hi, Melody C.,

This is a common occurence, unfortunately.

If the client hasn't paid Upwork for your time and your tracking of billable time using TimeTracker does not dot the i's and cross the t's, Upwork will charge back to you a so-called "refund", which does not need to be authorized by you. It's automatic.

Look through this document at the link below and you might find what went wrong in regards to why your hourly payment was not covered by Upwork's usually-excellent hourly payment protection:

Hourly Payment Protection – Upwork Customer Service & Support | Upwork Help

There are multiple reasons why payment protection may not apply to any hourly project, including:

1) Pay rate is out of line with freelancer's usual pay rate on previous projects

2) Billable time was entered manually, rather than tracked in real time by TimeTracker

3) The memo entered for the TimeTracker tracked time periods is vague or missing

4) The client's payment method has not been approved by Upwork

Payment protection is limited to $2,500 per project (which may have nothing to do with your situation).

If you follow the details listed in the link above you should find Upwork hourly payment protection to be reliable. I have.

Good luck on your future projects!

[spectralua]

I will write here again: if Upwork correct the stupid wording to "Upwork returned the money" then this will save the forum from thousands of identical topics.

[7cd127f5]

I incountered that also twice to my client..

[dawntreader1]

I'm having the same issue that has been repeatedly voiced in this thread.  I received an email stating “I refunded” a portion of my client's money. I haven’t authorized such thing, all hours were under the terms of the contract and logged using the time tracker.  These hours were part of an ongoing contract that has been very involved, and can I can assure the work is there to prove it.  

I contacted support and they informed me that my hours were not protected due to "manual time-low activity".  If it’s being deemed as “low activity”, then that is extremely subjective, and to initiate a refund to a client on my behalf due to some Upwork agent’s arbitrary evaluation of what is sufficient activity, is unacceptable.  The type of work we do as freelancers varies so dramatically, and involves a whole spectrum of different types of tasks, to claim that it all can be qualified by clicks on a keyboard or mouse, is ridiculous.

Furthermore, my client didn’t even request a refund at all, and instead has informed me that Upwork has made it very difficult to resolve their billing issues or even re-issue me the payment as a bonus (which was the solution Upwork suggested). 

I've been working lengthy hours on Upwork for years, mostly all tracked through the time tracker on the web app, since it was my understanding that my earnings are protected by Upwork if I do so.  Upwork has also made tens of thousands off of my hard work.   To not have to chase my clients down for payment or wonder when I'm going to get paid for my work, is the entire reason I'm a freelancer on Upwork.  If my earnings can be swept out from under me and refunded to my client without my input, what exactly is the point of being on Upwork in the first place?!  It's certainly not for the customer service, as I spent about half an hour on the support chat, trying to get through to an actual agent instead of the bot, and ended up having to submit an email and wait hours for a response.

Does anyone have any input as to what our recourse is for these situations (aside from the unhelpful canned responses of the Upwork support staff)?

[spectralua]

In short: nothing.

[iwan-spillebeen]

Hi,

My clients' payment failed so the contract was suspended, it's happened a few times and it is unclear what the issue is, I have seen the client process the payment and it being rejected by UpWork's platform multiple times for it to then suddenly be accepted (literally during the same call).

Anyway, payment went through, and payment was issued to me, but the contract remains suspended ... this happens time and again and has so far cost 97 hours of work ... UpWork needs to update its processes to reinstate contracts when payment goes through.

I would also urge UpWork to seriously review how it deals with long term contracts, I've been dealing with this client for 18 months, and this credit note that is auto issued - in MY name, without MY authorisation - is an illegal practice.  Give us the option to forego payment protection so that we can keep track of these contracts even if there are payment issues, without credit notes being auto released and causing accounting nightmares.

[759e32fa]

Hi Iwan,

I'm sorry to hear that this process has affected your experience negatively. I assure you that this process is meant to protect freelancers and not in any way intended to inconvenience both parties.

When a client's billing method fails, Upwork steps in to pay any logged hours that qualify for Hourly Payment Protection to make sure the freelancers are properly compensated even when this happens. On the client's end, this is noted as an outstanding balance which of course, they need to pay in order to continue using Upwork. There are several reasons why a client's billing method fails but we cannot disclose them for privacy reasons.

However, when the logged hours do not qualify for Payment Protection, the client can only pay you by issuing a bonus payment, which is manually taking out the payment from their account. This does not reinstate their account right away as they still have to update their payment method on file in order to make sure that future payments will automatically be debited.

Even long-standing contracts have to adhere to this process as this is the agreement both parties agreed to when they entered an hourly contract. You can read more about Hourly Escrow instructions here.

I suggest you communicate your concern with the client so they can add another billing method that wouldn't fail moving forward and not affect your work with them.

[dawntreader1]

I'm sorry, Annie, but these lines "that this process is meant to protect freelancers and not in any way intended to inconvenience both parties", is some serious corporate tripe that none of us are buying.  The reality is that these actions are soley in place to protect Upwork's bottom line, with total disregard to the livelihood of those whose work is the sole source of that revenue. 

The crux of the issue here is that Upwork's process of qualifying our work as active enough for payment protection, is purely subjective - and then issuing credits and billing adjustments in our name and without our authorization, is dishonest at best and certainly involves some legal acrobatics. 

I have been an Upwork freelancer for 5 years - Top Rated Plus, with a 100% job success score, which one would think should earn some credibility with Upwork.  But instead of Upwork honoring my hours tracked as hours worked, last week they refunded one of my clients for 3 hours of my work on my behalf, without my consent and without the client requesting it.

Bottom line, Upwork: there is no acceptable excuse for these practices, so stop trying to make a case for it.  Instead, tell us what you're going to do to change and do right by us.

[iwan-spillebeen]

1. I don't know why my topic was merged into an "unauthorised refund topic" the two are only slighty related.

2. Please save me the corporate nonsense of "this process is meant to protect freelancers and not in any way intended to inconvenience both parties" as the practice performed by UpWork is illegal, highly inconveniences both parties and is only in place to protect UpWork from liability and nothing else. I have stated many times that I'm happy to sign a waiver to relinguish UpWork from late payment issues for certain contracts, UpWork has never even responded.

3. The rules for hourly protection are incredibly subjective and totally up to UpWork to decide whether hours qualify (such as memos being adequate) and are only there to favour UpWork.

4. The issue I raised in my original post has been ignored once again, the payment was made by the client (I witnessed them making the payment), the payment was processed by UpWork yesterday, yet the contract is still suspended.  Every time this happens the contract remains suspended until I complain, I've had this happen on more than one contract.

5. I've been top rated plus very shortly after I started, have a 100% succes score, have multiple long term (18 months +) clients on UpWork, have 2,660 hours logged yet can't even get in touch with customer support when needed, just canned responses in forums and emails.  UpWork NEEDS to do better!

[junaidiqbalrao]

Hello all

I am working with a client for over 6 months now. I did a lot of work with them related to integration with NetSuite, fixing the issue with their scripts, and even helping them understand how the whole process work.  

There was no issue in the past, we started with a small number of hours I always logged hours via the Upwork app. They increase and decrease those hours as they wanted to. 

When I was hired and reviewed the whole process I informed them the whole premise of the flow is wrong, but they ignored that want me to fix the issues. 

I fixed their issues, the client tested them, and release the payments week by week. At the start of July, they suddenly start testing stuff that they explicitly told me did not work and blaming me for not fixing a thing.  I fixed that issue as well and informed them. 

The client-side resource who was communicating with me always making mistakes. He did not have any understanding of systems and processes. He was always making mistakes, I told him to create a few records and mention the details he created completely different things, and this caused issues on my side as I have to do it myself.

This happen again and again and when I try to talk to him about it he got mad and rather than accepting his mistake he blamed me for it. 

They disputed the July hours that were thrown out as hours were logged properly now they want the last 30 days' payment back. I refused that and dispute mediation started.

The Upwork mediator sided with them and asked me to refund half of that money, I provided the mediator with complete detail from a chat where they accepted testing and said it worked. They removed me from accounts and said my work was no use and they have hired a new developer who is fixing it from scratch. 

I initially refused to refund but to settle it for peace of mind I offered them that I will work 12-15 hours for free and Upwork mediator refused that also and now giving me options on how to fund my account and refund it. 

I have worked with much bigger and lengthier projects than this and never had this kind of problem.

The client keep on saying that they are not satisfied with the work, I showed the chat to the mediator about approval, and the mediator is still on their side.

I am confused what should I do, should I refund or not? 

[wlyonsatl]

This was an hourly contract and neither Upwork nor the client have said they found evidence that you used TimeTracker incorrectly?

Upwork's own documentation clearly says clients cannot demand refunds on hourly projects past a certain time: "Timing is critical here. You must file any dispute during the five days after the billing period has closed."

Dispute an agency or freelancer’s hours – Upwork Customer Service & Support | Upwork Help

[junaidiqbalrao]

Hi Will

yes, the tracking is fine, all the work is done and has data and proper screenshots, which is why the first dispute was rejected and I got paid. Now they are disputing the last 30 days, which also has tracked time through the app except for 2 hours where due to an issue we mutually decide to add time manually. All the work I have done is hourly and tacked. 

[wlyonsatl]

Please keep us updated how this progresses. after you have asked the Upwork mediator why (s)he is not following Upwork's own rules on hourly disputes.

The page I linked to above clearly states that a client, "... cannot file a dispute because you are not satisfied with the quality of the freelancer’s work."

If the client can't dispute the billable work hours you properly recorded using TimeTracker and the client can't dispute the quality of your work, what is the basis of their refund request that Upwork is allowing to go forward? Upwork also says, "we can ask the freelancer to provide a refund but we can not force any action."

[junaidiqbalrao]

Thanks for your great help and for sharing this article. 

The mediator is telling me either I refund it myself or they will take action on my behalf.  There is no reply on the Upwork documentation I shared with them.

[lysis10]

Just tell the mediator no refunds. I've been through this and was lucky that I gave a time estimate prior to hiring after the client claimed they would never have hired me for the amount of money I was charging. The time estimate was in messages and I had only charged half of the estimate, so after I showed the mediator I guess the client got embarrassed or spooked (idk) and disappeared and abandoned the dispute.

[junaidiqbalrao]

Hi Jennifer 

I already shared a very detailed reply with the mediator, which consists of screenshots from a chat where they are thanking me and told me that it's worked fine. The mediator did not heed it and now threatening me either I should refund it or Upwork will take action on my behalf

[martamartins95]

I received this email about the situation with cliente

"Hi Marta,

We are writing to let you know that your client's payment was unsuccessful for the week of 2023-07-23. Since we offer payment protection, we reviewed your account carefully to see if this payment is covered under Upwork Hourly Payment Protection. Unfortunately, it is because you do not meet the criteria to be covered for payment protection. We have returned the following amount to your client:

Amount Reversed: $ 15.0
Client Name: **Edited for Community Guidelines**
Invoice Date: 2023-07-23
Contract ID#: ....
Reason: Low Activity

The above will show up in your transaction history as a "Refund. "At this point, if your client approved the hours for this week, we suggest asking them to issue a bonus payment to you for the amount. We also want you to verify your identity so going forward you get the benefit of Upwork Hourly Payment Protection and stay in good standing on Upwork. To do so, go here.

Regards,
The Upwork Team"

I used the time tracker from the beginning. I have my account with all the necessary requirements. I had already opened a ticket here (https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Client-want-a-refund-after-closing-the-project-without-f...) and they assured me that they would pay me the total amout of 400$, and now this?
I didn't recive anything and i need to refound? 

If someone can help me with that, i'm glad

[ArjayM]

Hi Marta,

I'm sorry to learn about this disappointing experience. Please be aware that when a client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours that aren't covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed. Please check out this help article for more information. 

I can also see that the team has reached out to you via email with more information and further instructions on how to address the issue. Please coordinate with the team through that email and they will surely assist you accordingly. You may also access the support ticket linked to your case here.

[wlyonsatl]

Hi, Marta.

Has Upwork sorted this out for you?