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hermanng
Community Member

Upwork is a real loose Cannon on deck

It happened again, I just used 6 connects to apply for a job which showed "less than 5" applicants. It took exactly 3 minutes to write my proposal and when done I checked back on the job posting and sure enough, now it says 15-20 applicants. Had I seen that before I would not have applied and please do not tell me that within those 3 minutes 15-20 others send their application in all at once. 

If there is a reporting delay due to technical difficulties UW should solve this presto, otherwise, it could be construed as a scam, especially since you are now charging for connects.

I would also like to know what happens if I withdraw my proposal, will I get the 6 connects back or not??

Maybe one of the moderators can answer that unless you don't have a script ready for that. 

38 REPLIES 38
petra_r
Community Member


Hermann M wrote:

 

I would also like to know what happens if I withdraw my proposal, will I get the 6 connects back or not??


https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062898-Use-Connects

 

not.jpg

hermanng
Community Member

well, that SUCKS BIG TIME I don't mind paying for connects if that solves the spamming problem, BUT I would at the very least expect correct information before spending money. Otherwise, if the information provided is false, this would qualify as a scam. 

vsalinitro
Community Member


Hermann M wrote:

It happened again, I just used 6 connects to apply for a job which showed "less than 5" applicants. It took exactly 3 minutes to write my proposal and when done I checked back on the job posting and sure enough, now it says 15-20 applicants. Had I seen that before I would not have applied and please do not tell me that within those 3 minutes 15-20 others send their application in all at once. 

If there is a reporting delay due to technical difficulties UW should solve this presto, otherwise, it could be construed as a scam, especially since you are now charging for connects.


Are you implying that is almost impossible for a job post to receive 15 to 20 proposals in 3 minutes on a platform that serves thousands of people from all over the world?

Interesting.

It does not really matter how many proposals there are at the precise time when you apply anyway.

 

As the client does not see proposals in the order they have arrived, it does not matter if there are 3-5 proposals when you apply, and another 30 arrive afterwards, or whether there are 30 when you apply, and another 5 arrive afterwards.


Also, that number only shows the proposals that have not been declined, archived or withdrawn, so it really provides little information about how likely one is to win the contract.

 

 

Hi Petra, 

 

I am pretty new here and still haven't got how all things work.

 

You say: "As the client does not see proposals in the order they have arrived, ..."

 

I am curious how does a client see them. Today I do not even bother to apply when I see too many applicants. Sometimes I can see that a job was posted 1 hour ago and there are already some people being interviewed....

 

Thank you in advance!


Natalia S wrote:

 

I am curious how does a client see them. Today I do not even bother to apply when I see too many applicants.


On the client side, there is a weird algorithm that puts best fits on the top and labels them that way. While I'm generally wary of algorithms on Upwork, I have to say that each time I posted a job on Upwork, it has been generally accurate in suggesting the best fits.

 

Also, many proposals are totally irrelevant, which is why Upwork has decided on making people pay for connects (let's wait until everybody spends their current stock of connects and has to pay for them to see if this works). This means that the fact that a job has 50 proposals doesn't mean it's a waste of time applying. Actually, it depends on the industry. A data entry job for instance will have tons of relevant applications because data entry is low skill and there is a ton of people who do it. But if more specialized skills are needed and you happen to have them, you can bet that amongst the 50 applicants a majority is just trash. So you may still stand out. Plus, 90% cannot write a decent cover letter.

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Thank you Rene! Very helpful!

Hi Rene, Can you try to check my profile and see if there is something that I can improve on that for me to have at least get an invite for a job? Thank you.


Natalia S wrote:

Hi Petra, 

 

I am pretty new here and still haven't got how all things work.

 


Also since you are a translator, you may want to rephrase this: High quality translation services English/Russian/French.

 

A translator translates only into your native language (*), so you need to mention it. You need to change your language section because you're not native in English, French and Russian. You're probably a native speaker of one of these and a fluent speaker of the others. If you want to look professional, you would want to fix this.

 

(*) This is for written translations, interpreting is often symmetric, however.

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Thank you for your advice. I was actually considering those. But to tell the truth based my choice on the fact that people who are born in France/US (I speak about countries where I lived and worked) and speak only 1 language often speak it worse than foreigners who had to learn it.
Anyway my translation skills are secondary as I cannot compete in price with people living in former soviet republics...
Still, thank you for your advice!


Natalia S wrote:
people who are born in France/US (I speak about countries where I lived and worked) and speak only 1 language often speak it worse than foreigners who had to learn it.


 

I understand, but they are not your competition. Your competition will be professional translators who are native speakers of French or English. Unless you have spent your life in a French or English-speaking country, you're an ESL or a FSL. If this is the case, it probably shows in your writing. For having reviewed many writings or translations from non-native speakers, I strongly advise people to avoid doing this, especially on Upwork. One may burn one's profile badly with a poor review from a client who is either a native speaker of the target language or who is serious enough to have it checked.

 

On the other side, I can see how a trilingual project manager can succeed on Upwork.

 

If you haven't already, please read this thoroughly: 

Getting Started on Upwork

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless
tlsanders
Community Member


Hermann M wrote:

 

If there is a reporting delay due to technical difficulties UW should solve this presto, otherwise, it could be construed as a scam, especially since you are now charging for connects.

 

It's hard to see how it could be construed as a scam when Upwork employees have publicly said about 25,000 times that the updates don't occur in real time and what you see in one place may not be in sync with what's reported elsewhere on the site.

 

Hermann...what are you doing? You're doing well here, but it seems that every day you have a new rant about something you don't approve of in the way Upwork does business. As a successful business person, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on your own operations and earnings? 

I would hope that this is exactly the forum in which Hermann (or any other freelancer) would feel free to raise their legitimate questions and professional concerns regarding Upwork practices.

Or to ask for assistance regarding same.

 

I personally do not read any professional concern as a "rant".

 

Work smart, work safe!

William, I also consider this an appropriate place to raise concrete issues freelancers encounter on Upwork. The reason I raised this question is that Hermann is quite successful on Upwork, yet seems to start a new thread about how terrible some aspect of the company is approximately every four hours. And, unlike the "legitimate questions and professional concerns" you reference, they are almost always hyperbolic "loose cannon on deck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and are typically made without reference to facts (for instance, calling the not-real-time numbers a "scam" without bothering to read the hundreds of threads in which Upwork has made it quite clear that those numbers aren't necessarily up to date and shouldn't be relied upon). 

 

This is typically behavior we see from desperate freelancers who are unable to make any money and need someone to blame. It's odd and surprising from a successful freelancer.


Tiffany S wrote:

The reason I raised this question is that Hermann is quite successful on Upwork, yet seems to start a new thread about how terrible some aspect of the company is approximately every four hours.


Considering that Hermann has publicly declared that after he has concluded his existing contracts he will slam the door and Upwork can bleep itself, I am at a loss as to why he is actually applying when he is leaving anyway?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

If you're done, be done and follow through.

If you are not done, don't do the theatrical swan song door slamming stuff.

 

 

florydev
Community Member


If you're done, be done and follow through.

How about if you are done...just go...

petra_r
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

If you're done, be done and follow through.

How about if you are done...just go...


same thing.

 

lysis10
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

If you're done, be done and follow through.

How about if you are done...just go...


But you gotta make a post about it first because it's important that everyone knows! ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„

Tiffany, all I'm doing is pointing out a weak point here on UW, especially since people are now paying for connects. If false numbers are shown, it's like a second-hand car dealer reducing the mileage on cars. When I bid for a job I know that client descriptions etc.. are usually vague and sometimes wrong, but I should have at least one constant to base my decisions on, the numbers provided by UW. I do not quite understand the condescending attitude of some of the people here who, when someone complaints, no matter how legitimate they cannot hold back their verbal beile and attack that person. 

All I'm asking for are true numbers so  I can decide if to bid or not!!

nigell
Community Member

Yes, I strongly agree with what you said. It's like so unfair in our part as a freelancer. UW team should something about this or else some of there freelancer will go to other platform. 

Elton June,

 

I don't think it makes much difference whether or not freelancers leave. There will still be an abundance of freelancers to replace them. I am fascinated by all of the threats of leaving from freelancers as if that's going to really bother Upwork or the freelancers that choose to stay. I say get going if that's what you want to do. Nobody is forcing anyone to use Upwork. The continued complaints from the same individuals are losing their initial impact anyway. It starts to become noise.

I know it won't make much difference.

But the snarky superiority from so many fo the "Community" Gurus leads me to question whether I've misunderstood what the definition of "Community" actually is.

I personally would not have the audacity to treat members of my own actual community (as opposed to "virtual") to any such level of condescending elitist behaviour but...it seems some on this platform feel much more privileged to do so than others.

 

 

 

 

Hi William,

If you are referring to me, my comment is not snarky but based upon observation. Nothing in what I said is snarky. Are there not individuals saying they are going to leave? Do you think Upwork really cares if a few abandon ship? Do you think freelancers wanting a reduction in competition care? Would you not want someone unhappy to find happiness even if it meant going elsewhere? Why is it when one doesn't agree with another, it is considered being snarky?

Catherine,

 

I was not referring to you.

But thanks for your reply.

What if snarky superiority is your community?
Sometimes I wonder if itโ€™s in what you are used to, what you are expecting, and what you were secretly hoping for. Considering we are all in business for ourselves and nominally in competition with each other I personal have found this community extraordinarily helpful.
YMMV I guess.

Snarky superiority is only ever a "community" when members of said "community" know that their words/actions will have no direct repercussions, and as a result they're emboldened to behave in a manner they would not even dream of in the real world.

 

One of the reasons I would never have the audacity to treat members of my actual communtiy in a superior manner is because I know that I'll have to immediately deal with real consequences, including instant, on-the-spot corrections to any obnoxious behavior.

Another reason is because I actually try to always respect every member of my own community. To my community's credit, I find that I almost always get respect in return.

 

In a virtual community I do, however, understand that respect for others is entirely optional.


william b wrote:

 behave in a manner they would not even dream of in the real world.

๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ˜„

William B., I believe the people you refer to as 'snarky' are the same ones who offer tons of free advice as well as direct and indirect mentoring to FLers who are sincerely trying to master a confusing system; who ask intelligent questions, and who follow-up with a word of thanks.

 

Snark is reserved for freeloaders, incompetents, and trouble makers.  All are easy to spot.


Catherine M wrote:

I don't think it makes much difference whether or not freelancers leave. There will still be an abundance of freelancers to replace them.

While Upwork does have an abundance of freelancers, I'd love to know how many actually pull in money each month. Upwork should care about any freelancer who leaves that made them a reasonable amount of money. If clients start getting less than stellar work because those freelancers left, they will leave too.


Michelle T wrote:

While Upwork does have an abundance of freelancers, I'd love to know how many actually pull in money each month. Upwork should care about any freelancer who leaves that made them a reasonable amount of money. If clients start getting less than stellar work because those freelancers left, they will leave too.


Freelancers who are making a reasonable amount of money are unlikely to leave. (The OP is a case in point.)


Christine A wrote:


Freelancers who are making a reasonable amount of money are unlikely to leave. (The OP is a case in point.)


I don't think we can make that assumption. If they are unhappy with some change, I don't see why they'd stay if they have the skills to pursue other options. Why stay in a situation if it's making you miserable?

I agree with both of you. Like Christine said those making money "most likely" will stay. On the other hand, Michelle, you are right some may feel the need to explore other options. Either way, I think those moneymakers willing to stay will outweigh those leaving. I don't think the exodus of high earners will be great enough for Upwork to feel any real impact. The new changes would really have to outweigh my earnings and access to new clients on Upwork for me to consider leaving. Right now, the fees are not having any impact on me. I can't speak for other moneymaking freelancers but the changes really are not bothering me.

may I ask why your profile is not public?

 

The snarling criticism here by a select few against any constructive criticism about UW is beyond my understanding. They seem to be on this platform only to satisfy some personal need or brown nose, hoping to get to be considered a faithful UW member. 
What Have I complained about here?

1) the completely non-transparent JSS system which leaves the FL open to blackmail by clients and does not really represent an FL's qualifications

2) the low ball job offers from less than $1.00 to $5.00 per hour or $25.00 fixed for a weeks work

3) the flooding of low ball offers on most jobs by mostly unqualified FL's

 

Change comes through constructive criticism. If no one criticizes no change will ever happen.

 

One example: If a client is looking for an FL to do a job he/she will check out the ballpark numbers of what others have paid or are offering for similar jobs. This is a normal procedure anyone performing due diligence would do. By allowing low ball jobs or in many cases insultingly low offers to be advertised here on UW, this will overall lower the expectations of what clients have to offer for a job which will impact all of us and UW as well.

Those professional criticizers go up in arms when such an issue is raised here, either not understanding the facts or are too embroiled in looking for a pad on their shoulders from the moderators.  


Hermann M wrote:

 

One example: If a client is looking for an FL to do a job he/she will check out the ballpark numbers of what others have paid or are offering for similar jobs. This is a normal procedure anyone performing due diligence would do. By allowing low ball jobs or in many cases insultingly low offers to be advertised here on UW, this will overall lower the expectations of what clients have to offer for a job which will impact all of us and UW as well.


Hermann, do you seriously think there are many people left on this planet who aren't aware that they can get stuff cheaper online by accessing the global marketplace? That ship sailed a long time ago, and there's no turning back.

 

For what it's worth, I think it would be great if the minimums were raised, and I've said so in other threads. But if that happens, a lot of clients will definitely just go elsewhere; they're not going to suddenly see the light and be willing to pay higher rates. I guess Upwork thinks that getting 20% of ยฃ3/hour is better than getting 20% of nothing. So if I want to stick around, it's my job to convince SOME clients that it's worth it to pay more for my services, and so far, I've been able to do this. It looks like you're able to do this as well.

petra_r
Community Member


Hermann wrote:

may I ask why your profile is not public?


Whose profile? If mine, it is set to Upwork users.

Why?

 

Change comes through constructive criticism.


"constructive" being the operative word.

florydev
Community Member

Comparing the length of ones profiles...the last refuge


Hermann M wrote:

may I ask why your profile is not public?


Regardless of whom you're addressing, Hermann: no, you may not. It's none of our business whether or how our competitors show their profiles. One generally only sees the privacy of profiles mentioned here when someone with a private profile has asked for feedback on it, or is asking/complaining about why they don't get work; in the latter case, the profile is a logical place to look for clues.


Douglas Michael M wrote:

Hermann M wrote:

may I ask why your profile is not public?


Regardless of whom you're addressing, Hermann: no, you may not.


He "may" ask, the answer could (indeed) be "none of your business"

Mine is currently set to "Upwork users only" due to the wife of an ex showing an unhealthy interest in me.

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