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Exp U Community Member

Job warning signs

When reading a job description, what causes you to go "Ut-oh!"? What red flags do you see in applications that at least puts you on your guard, if not actually skip to the next one? Here's some of mine (and others):

 

First and foremost The work is yours until you are paid in full. You own the copyright until you have been paid the agreed sum. If you choose to work for 15 cents per hour then that's your problem. If it takes longer than you thought..again, down to you. BUT. If you have done your bit according to the contract that you agreed, then the work is yours until it's paid for.

 

Asking for payment or to use your own accounts (Thanks Dave!) Money comes from the client to you; anything else and you're doing it wrong. Do not ever (unless you know the client really well, and give it second thoughts even then) pay for something for the client unless you have received the money from them first. Deposit for something; webhosting accounts; domain name; subscription for site X that is "essential for the job" etc etc. No money. Ever. Similarly, do not use your own eBay, Craigslist etc. accounts to list things for sale...chances are high that it will end badly and wreck any good karma you have built up there. And it'll be you in the frame if it turns out that it was illegal.

 

"Bait and Switch" (Thanks Selcalmel!) Clients advertise one job and then offer a different job at interview. Now there can be valid reasons for this; but a big difference between the job description and the work you're being offered should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Mostly on oDesk it's either jobs that you wouldn't have applied for if the job was described honestly or changing the rules to try and get the price down.

 

Too many people being interviewed This can be a sign that the buyer is dividing the job up and giving the various parts as a 'test' to applicants...with the intention of getting the job for free. It could just be that the buyer is looking for a very specific set of skills, or other innocent motive, but maybe not.

NOTE: (Thanks Brandon!) This also applies to the client's history...check the total number of jobs posted versus people hired. If there are a load of jobs posted but few contracts awarded, then proceed with caution.

 

Only low bidders being interviewed If you're not one of the low bidders on that job then it's probably not worth applying.

 

Long list of demands, silly budget We've all seen them; the jobs for an all-singing, all-dancing website for $100, followed by either a HUGE feature list and/or a long list of qualities required by the contractor. Luckily for you, the buyer is advertising the fact that they are a wanker (behaviour which is unlikely to change if you were unfortunate enough to land the contract). This buyer knows the market well enough to know exactly what they want; and must therefore know that the budget is exploitative...move on. And as a corollary to the above (Thanks Louis!):

 

People who bellow orders, often in capitals "SUCH SUCH WILL NOT BE READ I IF [insert term].... OTHERWISE I WILL DELETE YOUR APPLICATION IMMEDIATELY". Or "MUST ATTACH SUCH AND SUCH OTHERWISE YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME". Some people -presumably after watching Alan Sugar or that twat Trump- think that this is how bosses should behave. I see it mostly as a sign of either someone being new to being in a position to call the shots and is a bit insecure about it, or someone who is a natural git. In either case your job will be more difficult because of it. Also, these types of application are frequently paired with a ridiculous budget. Any buyers who are reading this should note that this isn't the way to go about things...also all capitals make it harder to read and you're increasing the chances of applicants missing an important detail. Annoying people before they've even applied for your job cannot possibly help. Am I the only one, by the way, who feels the impulse to reply in kind?: "Listen up bitch. I reckon I can do it in 10 hours which'll cost you $450 and if that isn't good enough then you can just **Edited for Community Guidelines** would be a fairly short application, probably.

 

Mention of half-finished job/previous contractor/s There are two factors here...sorting out what someone else has done often takes longer than just doing whatever it is from scratch. You will very probably be inheriting a hairy-arsed nightmare. The other factor -and a question you should be asking yourself (and the buyer, come to that)- is exactly why the previous contractor didn't finish. It does happen that buyers get a run of bad luck with contractors (often after playing in the lower budget ranges), so it isn't necessarily the buyer's fault. On the other hand, it could be. Rescuing a client from a wall-to-wall catastrophe at the 11th hour is one of the best smug feelings you can get as a freelancer; but these jobs are high-risk...you need to ascertain for yourself that the buyer is genuine before getting in too deep. A note to any buyers reading this: If you've already been through two or more contractors and you still don't have a result, you need to seriously consider throwing a match in and starting with fresh code. I've had jobs where it took significantly longer to find out what the hell the previous guys had done than it would have taken to just bin everything and do the job. And with other people's code, you can never be 100% sure that you haven't missed something important/broken/nasty.

 

One-line descriptions Buyers quite often don't know the information that a contractor needs in order to produce a final product the client will be happy with; that's not a problem and it's the contractor's job to ask the right questions. But when you see a job like "I need a website. Plz replie", just move on. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.

 

Payment method not verified Sign either of a first-time user or a scammer. If the unverified user is overly familiar with the way oDesk works...warning! If it's a first time user, you may well have to do some unofficial oDesk support and talk them through it. And you might still get scammed at the end.

 

Anything where you have to create a user account on another site (that isn't the site you're working on) before you start. No. Just no.

 

Business plan with failure built in As a webdesigner, I hear 10 plans for world domination before breakfast. Some job descriptions have fail built into the very fabric of the scheme. The worst ones are the ones where you have to mess around with NDAs and soothe the buyer that you're not going to be over the horizon with his masterplan (which often as not turns out to be another bloody facebook or youtube clone). *sigh*

 

Jobs where 'clients' are mentioned I don't really like sub-sub contracting. Firstly there's there's the thought of the buyer sitting on his arse collecting cash for my work; which rankles a bit. Secondly -and more important- is the 'Chinese Whisper Effect'; where the original client's specs is filtered through the middleman's idea of what the end-client wants. These specs may well not be accurate. You *will* be doing extra work because of this. The same applies to large companies where an underling has been given the task and is now offloading it onto you; but in this case the specs are more often written down. The worse case in this latter scenario can be where it's a committee and everyone present has to get a design change in there -no matter how pointless- just to get their name in the minutes of the meeting.

 

"It will only take 5 minutes" No it won't. No job in the history of contracting has ever taken only 5 minutes. It takes longer than that to liase with the potential client, for a start.

 

Jobs that aren't worth it ((Your hourly rate) * (Number of hours you think it will take)) + (Say 10% safety margin for extra missions/unexplained bits) = (Your price for the job). If there's not enough money or not enough time, then it's usually best to move on.

 

Anything that mentions CAPTCHA or removing watermarks It's naughty. Don't.

 

Web scraping Nah. Probably illegal (copyright) and definitely immoral. You're stealing someone else's work. Worse...you're automating stealing someone else's work.

 

Jobs where it looks like a reasonable budget for the job until you read the description and it turns out that the budget is a monthly wage for full-time work of the same type This is annoying and wastes time.

 

Non-profit organisation (Thanks Mahesh!) A non-profit organisation is not the same thing as a charity. Some are, of course, but some are tax dodges, some are for groups of people, with the aim of the organisation being something you don't necessarily approve of..."Mothers in support of the ruthless oppression of Brits in Spain"; "White supremacy"; "Black supremacy"; whatever. Or -as Mahesh points out- it could just be weasel-wording for the fact that they haven't made any money.

 

Buyers asking for free work samples/tests (Thanks Anna!) It is the buyer's right to ask, just as it is your right to refuse. It's also discouraged by oDesk. All the veteran contractors (including me) will advise against free samples and in any case that's what your portfolio is for...to show previous examples of work and the standard that you're capable of. For contractors it just is not worth it...if there's 30 applicants to the job, you're spending time doing work for a 1 in 30 chance of getting a job. You can spend your entire life doing this and not make a penny. Now that I've said all that, a free sample is what landed me my first job on oDesk...someone wanted a graphic vector conversion and -having some free time- I just did it and sent an (unusable) sample graphic in. The buyer didn't demand a sample (I would not have applied if that were the case), but I proved I could do the job by doing it. Traditionally in design work, it used to be the case that the designer offered several alternate designs; but those were for *much* larger-budget jobs. It isn't worth even considering for the sort of jobs that are at oDesk. If you do choose to give free samples, always watermark them (Thanks Ernesto!). In the case of writing samples, send them as a graphic or locked PDF so that the text can't be used without paying you.

 

Free work samples - Part II If the buyer is asking for free samples and if it's the sort of job that can be broken up into smaller tasks then pay extra attention; and also look closely at the number of people being interviewed.

 

"Great opportunity for newbies" (Thanks Judith!) This means that a buyer is offering a risably small budget for work in exchange for giving you feedback. This is either feedback blackmail or investing time in order to get in the game, depending upon your point of view. You are definitely being taken advantage of; but really it's your decision...as long as you go into it with your eyes open and as long as it's all agreed at the start. Buyers trying to use feedback to change the terms after the job has started, however, should be reported.

 

Vague specifications (Thanks Louis!) It's harder to work with vague specifications, mostly, but you see quite a lot of jobs with insufficient detail. If you're extremely lucky, it's a buyer who wants this Thing to perform this Function; is busy; has correctly assessed your level of competence; and trusts you to get 'er done. This is rare. It is, however, also difficult to write job descriptions with exactly the right amount of detail. Insufficient detail could be due to laziness; unfamiliarity with the oDesk system; lack of knowledge (which is after all why the buyer is getting a professional in)...lots of reasons. The best way of approaching this -I believe- is to use the application letter and interview to clear up any ambiguities and to focus in on the specs so that you and the client both agree on what the job actually is and where the boundaries are. If you start the job and only have a vague idea of what the client wants, you are going to have problems. Possibly big problems if the job description also states...

 

Unlimited redo A job description containing these words should be approached with caution. Particularly with website work, as you're essentially agreeing to maintain it forever as part of the deal. Add a bit of mission creep to a contract like this and you're in a world of hurt. I always specify 'reasonable amount of re-do' in the cover letter. It's a contract and you should never agree to something that can suck up an infinite amount of your time for free. I understand that buyers want their work the way they want it and the 'unlimited' is mostly just a way of ensuring that their needs will be met. You, the contractor, also needs to ensure that you're covered, so best to renegotiate this phrase.

 

"Send us ID" This is not needed to work at oDesk. Don't do it or you will be very sorry. Verify who you are through oDesk, if you must, but ***NEVER*** send ID; bank account details, PayPal, eBay or any other information that can be used by ID-theft types.

 

Write to me outside of odesk This isn't necessarily a problem...everyone has their preferred methods of communication. At the first hint of paying outside of oDesk you should run away quickly: It's against oDesk rules; will get your account terminated if you're caught; and you will probably get stiffed by the buyer anyway.

 

Phishing (Thanks Santos!) The way this works is that someone sends you a link (usually an obscured one like "http://bit.ly/whatever"). This takes you to a page that *looks like* a login page to a common internet service (Gmail, Paypal, Amazon, whatever), but isn't. What the page is, is a copy of that login screen and the idea is that you type your password in and it gets captured by naughty people. It's then standard practice to use that email/username/password on lots of other common services to see if they work. If you 1) fall for it and 2) use the same password everywhere, you're stuffed. Don't trust an obscured link; and ALWAYS check the URL on a login screen, just to make sure you're in the place you think you are. Personally, I go a little further than that and keep a link with my (encrypted) password file and I only use my local link to visit web services.

 

Good luck out there!

981 REPLIES 981
Vladimir's avatar
Vladimir G Community Manager

Hi Petra,

 

Non-Circumvention clause is not limited only to conducting payments off the platform, but it does apply to working on Upwork jobs without a formal contract. Please see the excerpt from the User Agreement:

 

Non-Circumvention: 

 

You agree not to circumvent the Payment Methods offered by the Site. By way of illustration and not in limitation of the foregoing, you must not:

 

  • Submit proposals or solicit parties identified through the Site to contact, hire, work with, or pay outside the Site.
  • Accept proposals or solicit parties identified through the Site to contact, deliver services, invoice, or receive payment outside the Site.

Upwork members have an obligation to report any member who offers to conduct jobs or payments off the platform, since this is a violation of the Exclusivity Period.

~ Vladimir
Upwork
Cathleen's avatar
Cathleen C Community Member

I don't do work or bid on jobs based on what jobs MAY be given to me in the future. It bothers me when clients include a sentence like, "i need a quote on a one-page flyer, but i will have much more work down the road." It seems to be included as a some kind of negotiation tactic for me to give a better price on THIS job based on some future job that I will likely never get.

 

That throws up a warning sign to me.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

re: "I don't do work or bid on jobs based on what jobs MAY be given to me in the future"

 

What makes them so sure I'll *want* to work for them in the future?

 

Especially if they pay less than my other clients?

Michelle's avatar
Michelle B Community Member

Read the first page on this forum it will save you a lot of heartache!

Grace's avatar
Grace L Community Member

Thank you! I'm new to UpWork and new to freelance work so this is very helpful indeed. I want to try NOT to be the newbie that comes back to UpWork Community in a few months' time asking for help about dodgy clients, scam work, etc etc. Smiley Very Happy

Manish's avatar
Manish C Community Member

Thanks for the tips. I am relatively new to upwork.com and this will be helpful. Luckily I havent got scammed till now (fingers crossed).

Barbara's avatar
Barbara W Community Member

Thank you so much for posting this! I am still fairly new to freelancing, VERY new to Upwork, and most of these things posted describe the jobs I have done for others on the other site I'm involved with. (I have been paid for all work, aside from having to practically beg for it from one of my clients). I do feel as if I am being taken advantage of in these contracts, but since I am getting paid and getting valuable experience, I'm just sort of building a portfolio out of it and moving over to here.

- Barbara Herrera -
Ana Maria's avatar
Ana Maria C Community Member

But where are the good jobs then?

 

The 99,9% of the jobs you can find here show one or more of those signs. 

 

There are a lot of good companies out there, why do Upwork only attrack wanna-preneurs? 

 

Think about it guys, there is a lot of money out there, clients who might be willing to spend decent budgets (so more commisions for you). 

 

Maybe bidding is not a good idea, or you need to set some limits, I don't know, but you can do it better. 

Mary Ann's avatar
Mary Ann D Community Member

Anyone aware of **edited for Community Guidelines** work panel? Someone hired me & wants me to log-in there everytime I start working. Username & password came from that person so I don't have to register. If I'll change my pass the confirmation will be on their e-mail not mine. And when I looked at my Job list it says there's no active jobs. Man Sad

David's avatar
David G Community Member


@Mary Ann D wrote:

Anyone aware of **edited for Community Guidelines** work panel? Someone hired me & wants me to log-in there everytime I start working. Username & password came from that person so I don't have to register. If I'll change my pass the confirmation will be on their e-mail not mine. And when I looked at my Job list it says there's no active jobs. Man Sad


 I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean much.

 

The biggest problem is that if the job does not show up on your active jobs list then you haven't been hired for the job. Or the client is trying to move you away from Upwork so that you don't work through Upwork--this can get you kicked off the site.

 

The client needs to hire you through Upwork and pay you through Upwork.

David's avatar
David G Community Member

I just checked on the work panel. It's a captcha job where you have to enter codes all day. These are not good jobs to take and you will probably not be paid. Don't do captcha jobs like this.

 

It sounds like your "client" is not very ethical. A lot of people fall for these types of jobs and end up not getting paid. Don't waste your time with an unethical job and an unethical client.

Maria Del Carmen's avatar
Maria Del Carmen M Community Member

Hi!

 

This is simply so good that it should be posted agin regularly on this community. New freelancers will be aware since the beginning! Thanks so much for this!

 

High regards,

 

Maria Del Carmen Muniz

Anatoly's avatar
Anatoly S Community Member

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 

19 proposals for what? I don't understand. Who could make a proposal for this client? And there's lots of jobs like this.

 

I tried to get a jobs which I wouldn't accept if I got feedbacks (if i had a choice). But this is a new bottom.

Ana Maria's avatar
Ana Maria C Community Member

The joke of the day: "this is an easy job that can be done in 5 minutes".... then, why don't you do it yourself?? 

Anatoly's avatar
Anatoly S Community Member

Okay, not 5 minutes. 1 hour maximum. My point is that client thinks it will take few days.

 

Deacon T, what courage do you mean? I have nothing to lose here.

 

Dale M, you didin't see screenshot that I'm talking about. Somebody deleted it from my message:

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 

P.S. this forum really needs to be fixed. Rich Text editor inserts <p> but then forum says it's inappropriate HTML tag. Also this text editor is horrible at all - I can't insert text near the image. Also forum doesn't have a decent reply option - it doesn't attach name to the message and I have to copy and paste it manually.
I know, I should write it in proper topic but I don't want to torture myself one more time.

And I can't attach png. Is 2003 back?

Dale's avatar
Dale M Community Member

I might bid or not bid on a job like that. Who knows. The person might be a cluesless executive that was told to find someone. They tend to be lazy, but can have some deep pockets.

Dale's avatar
Dale M Community Member

There is a flip side. Freelances that bid on jobs they have no clue on how to do them. Those who think that sub standard work is OK. And those who want you to pay for their training to do a job.


As a freelancer I have taken a job where it should have taken me two hours to do. Sent two flies to fix. The first file took only 20 minutes but the second took 6 hours. I knew what I was doing BUT this work needed a round about way of fixing it. That roundabout too 5 hours of beating my head until I came up with a solution.


Another job where I needed a character split and vectored. The job was sent back as layer 1, layer 2 layer 3, and I had to put in hand_left, foot_right, head. Come on people, don't be that lazy.


And the 'I don't work for Free' attitude will get you very few good paying jobs. Here is two examples when working for free can help you.


A company wants 300 short mocaps. Will send a video of what they want, you do the mocap. I haven't done mocap in years. My mocap computer would have to be fired up and I would have to see just what they want out of me. I'm willing to do one mocap as a test to get the job of the other 299.


I do animation, but my best skill is in 2d morphing. I spent 1 hour to rig and morph a character to show a possible client what it would look like.


Dale

Michelle's avatar
Michelle B Community Member

I have been working fluidly and without so much as a hiccup before taking a ob from an orthopedic surgeon who didn't seem to know what he wanted, kept changing his mind, chnaged his ad demands by the time it was award time.....I felt really uncomfortable, but I didn't listen to my gut and got totally screwed. I wish I wish I would have listened to your wise words sooner. I am currently being"blackmailed" that unless I write more content for him ( not revisions, as he "loves my work" (I'm a pysician assistant and medical expert content writer) he simply won't pay me.  Lovely, humanitarian that he is. I'm leaving on a medical mission next week for a year, in which we not only sacrifice our nornal salary for a year, but also pay for all our accomodations, air fare, food etc so was trying to save as much as possible by freelaning.....every penny counts. Explained this to Mr orthopedic Surgeon who earns 200 bucks every 15 minutes....nope.. won't pay me. So of course I filed a dispute. Does anyone know how long that lasts?? All his emails in Upwork are totally ver batim exactly what he asked me to write about as well as how much he loved the aticles. Just won't pay me until I write more for hiim, at no additional fee. Not that there is enough cash around to EVER work for this #$%hole again. How long do disputes take? And yes when I was new I submittted "samples" which I now know, simply were the work and I did it for free.  I have an abundance of hundreds on published samples, if your not convinced, good riddance...

 

thanks 

Maria Marilyn's avatar
Maria Marilyn M Community Member

An interviewer (not the client but an HR manager supposedly) is asking for pertinent information like address, SSN, email, and contact number. This is just the first round of interview and the second is with the actual client (if I pass the first). I'm not comfortable with providing such details except for the email and contact number. 

 

The client is actually a long time Upwork employer with over $40,000 paid. But still, I'm very doubtful why I am asked such. 

 

Is this a job warning sign? 

 

Please help. 

 

Thanks!

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Maria, clients on Upwork do not need your social security number.

 

Even if this is a legitimate client, I would not provide my social security number. It is not worth the risk.

 

Upwork clients are purchasing a service. They are not hiring an employee. When I buy a book on Amazon.com, I don't ask Amazon.com to give me a social security number.

Maria Marilyn's avatar
Maria Marilyn M Community Member

Thank you Preston. That's what I was thinking too. 

P's avatar
P J Community Member

How normal is it to be interviewed after your first bid? I'm a newbie and I'm wondering if I should be suspicious. It all seems pretty legit to me but one can never be too careful.
Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

PJ, thank you for posting your question here. Getting an offer to be interviewed from your first bid is NOT a warning sign. If it is a real job, it's a real job, whether it is your first bid or your fiftieth bid.

 

If the client is going to pay you for something you are qualified to do, then it is probably not a scam. If you have questions, come here to discuss with the experienced veterans of Upwork.

Anatoly's avatar
Anatoly S Community Member

Are they bots or something? I've seen dozens of "jobs" without description with proposals. I've seen proposal from non-engineer to engineer's job. Why is this happening?

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**

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@Anatoly S wrote:

Are they bots or something? I've seen dozens of "jobs" without description with proposals. I've seen proposal from non-engineer to engineer's job. Why is this happening?

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**


Maybe bots or aliens: 3-D-Modeling with a budget of 5 USD!