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expuser
Community Member

Job warning signs

When reading a job description, what causes you to go "Ut-oh!"? What red flags do you see in applications that at least puts you on your guard, if not actually skip to the next one? Here's some of mine (and others):

 

First and foremost The work is yours until you are paid in full. You own the copyright until you have been paid the agreed sum. If you choose to work for 15 cents per hour then that's your problem. If it takes longer than you thought..again, down to you. BUT. If you have done your bit according to the contract that you agreed, then the work is yours until it's paid for.

 

Asking for payment or to use your own accounts (Thanks Dave!) Money comes from the client to you; anything else and you're doing it wrong. Do not ever (unless you know the client really well, and give it second thoughts even then) pay for something for the client unless you have received the money from them first. Deposit for something; webhosting accounts; domain name; subscription for site X that is "essential for the job" etc etc. No money. Ever. Similarly, do not use your own eBay, Craigslist etc. accounts to list things for sale...chances are high that it will end badly and wreck any good karma you have built up there. And it'll be you in the frame if it turns out that it was illegal.

 

"Bait and Switch" (Thanks Selcalmel!) Clients advertise one job and then offer a different job at interview. Now there can be valid reasons for this; but a big difference between the job description and the work you're being offered should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Mostly on oDesk it's either jobs that you wouldn't have applied for if the job was described honestly or changing the rules to try and get the price down.

 

Too many people being interviewed This can be a sign that the buyer is dividing the job up and giving the various parts as a 'test' to applicants...with the intention of getting the job for free. It could just be that the buyer is looking for a very specific set of skills, or other innocent motive, but maybe not.

NOTE: (Thanks Brandon!) This also applies to the client's history...check the total number of jobs posted versus people hired. If there are a load of jobs posted but few contracts awarded, then proceed with caution.

 

Only low bidders being interviewed If you're not one of the low bidders on that job then it's probably not worth applying.

 

Long list of demands, silly budget We've all seen them; the jobs for an all-singing, all-dancing website for $100, followed by either a HUGE feature list and/or a long list of qualities required by the contractor. Luckily for you, the buyer is advertising the fact that they are a wanker (behaviour which is unlikely to change if you were unfortunate enough to land the contract). This buyer knows the market well enough to know exactly what they want; and must therefore know that the budget is exploitative...move on. And as a corollary to the above (Thanks Louis!):

 

People who bellow orders, often in capitals "SUCH SUCH WILL NOT BE READ I IF [insert term].... OTHERWISE I WILL DELETE YOUR APPLICATION IMMEDIATELY". Or "MUST ATTACH SUCH AND SUCH OTHERWISE YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME". Some people -presumably after watching Alan Sugar or that twat Trump- think that this is how bosses should behave. I see it mostly as a sign of either someone being new to being in a position to call the shots and is a bit insecure about it, or someone who is a natural git. In either case your job will be more difficult because of it. Also, these types of application are frequently paired with a ridiculous budget. Any buyers who are reading this should note that this isn't the way to go about things...also all capitals make it harder to read and you're increasing the chances of applicants missing an important detail. Annoying people before they've even applied for your job cannot possibly help. Am I the only one, by the way, who feels the impulse to reply in kind?: "Listen up bitch. I reckon I can do it in 10 hours which'll cost you $450 and if that isn't good enough then you can just **Edited for Community Guidelines** would be a fairly short application, probably.

 

Mention of half-finished job/previous contractor/s There are two factors here...sorting out what someone else has done often takes longer than just doing whatever it is from scratch. You will very probably be inheriting a hairy-arsed nightmare. The other factor -and a question you should be asking yourself (and the buyer, come to that)- is exactly why the previous contractor didn't finish. It does happen that buyers get a run of bad luck with contractors (often after playing in the lower budget ranges), so it isn't necessarily the buyer's fault. On the other hand, it could be. Rescuing a client from a wall-to-wall catastrophe at the 11th hour is one of the best smug feelings you can get as a freelancer; but these jobs are high-risk...you need to ascertain for yourself that the buyer is genuine before getting in too deep. A note to any buyers reading this: If you've already been through two or more contractors and you still don't have a result, you need to seriously consider throwing a match in and starting with fresh code. I've had jobs where it took significantly longer to find out what the hell the previous guys had done than it would have taken to just bin everything and do the job. And with other people's code, you can never be 100% sure that you haven't missed something important/broken/nasty.

 

One-line descriptions Buyers quite often don't know the information that a contractor needs in order to produce a final product the client will be happy with; that's not a problem and it's the contractor's job to ask the right questions. But when you see a job like "I need a website. Plz replie", just move on. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.

 

Payment method not verified Sign either of a first-time user or a scammer. If the unverified user is overly familiar with the way oDesk works...warning! If it's a first time user, you may well have to do some unofficial oDesk support and talk them through it. And you might still get scammed at the end.

 

Anything where you have to create a user account on another site (that isn't the site you're working on) before you start. No. Just no.

 

Business plan with failure built in As a webdesigner, I hear 10 plans for world domination before breakfast. Some job descriptions have fail built into the very fabric of the scheme. The worst ones are the ones where you have to mess around with NDAs and soothe the buyer that you're not going to be over the horizon with his masterplan (which often as not turns out to be another bloody facebook or youtube clone). *sigh*

 

Jobs where 'clients' are mentioned I don't really like sub-sub contracting. Firstly there's there's the thought of the buyer sitting on his arse collecting cash for my work; which rankles a bit. Secondly -and more important- is the 'Chinese Whisper Effect'; where the original client's specs is filtered through the middleman's idea of what the end-client wants. These specs may well not be accurate. You *will* be doing extra work because of this. The same applies to large companies where an underling has been given the task and is now offloading it onto you; but in this case the specs are more often written down. The worse case in this latter scenario can be where it's a committee and everyone present has to get a design change in there -no matter how pointless- just to get their name in the minutes of the meeting.

 

"It will only take 5 minutes" No it won't. No job in the history of contracting has ever taken only 5 minutes. It takes longer than that to liase with the potential client, for a start.

 

Jobs that aren't worth it ((Your hourly rate) * (Number of hours you think it will take)) + (Say 10% safety margin for extra missions/unexplained bits) = (Your price for the job). If there's not enough money or not enough time, then it's usually best to move on.

 

Anything that mentions CAPTCHA or removing watermarks It's naughty. Don't.

 

Web scraping Nah. Probably illegal (copyright) and definitely immoral. You're stealing someone else's work. Worse...you're automating stealing someone else's work.

 

Jobs where it looks like a reasonable budget for the job until you read the description and it turns out that the budget is a monthly wage for full-time work of the same type This is annoying and wastes time.

 

Non-profit organisation (Thanks Mahesh!) A non-profit organisation is not the same thing as a charity. Some are, of course, but some are tax dodges, some are for groups of people, with the aim of the organisation being something you don't necessarily approve of..."Mothers in support of the ruthless oppression of Brits in Spain"; "White supremacy"; "Black supremacy"; whatever. Or -as Mahesh points out- it could just be weasel-wording for the fact that they haven't made any money.

 

Buyers asking for free work samples/tests (Thanks Anna!) It is the buyer's right to ask, just as it is your right to refuse. It's also discouraged by oDesk. All the veteran contractors (including me) will advise against free samples and in any case that's what your portfolio is for...to show previous examples of work and the standard that you're capable of. For contractors it just is not worth it...if there's 30 applicants to the job, you're spending time doing work for a 1 in 30 chance of getting a job. You can spend your entire life doing this and not make a penny. Now that I've said all that, a free sample is what landed me my first job on oDesk...someone wanted a graphic vector conversion and -having some free time- I just did it and sent an (unusable) sample graphic in. The buyer didn't demand a sample (I would not have applied if that were the case), but I proved I could do the job by doing it. Traditionally in design work, it used to be the case that the designer offered several alternate designs; but those were for *much* larger-budget jobs. It isn't worth even considering for the sort of jobs that are at oDesk. If you do choose to give free samples, always watermark them (Thanks Ernesto!). In the case of writing samples, send them as a graphic or locked PDF so that the text can't be used without paying you.

 

Free work samples - Part II If the buyer is asking for free samples and if it's the sort of job that can be broken up into smaller tasks then pay extra attention; and also look closely at the number of people being interviewed.

 

"Great opportunity for newbies" (Thanks Judith!) This means that a buyer is offering a risably small budget for work in exchange for giving you feedback. This is either feedback blackmail or investing time in order to get in the game, depending upon your point of view. You are definitely being taken advantage of; but really it's your decision...as long as you go into it with your eyes open and as long as it's all agreed at the start. Buyers trying to use feedback to change the terms after the job has started, however, should be reported.

 

Vague specifications (Thanks Louis!) It's harder to work with vague specifications, mostly, but you see quite a lot of jobs with insufficient detail. If you're extremely lucky, it's a buyer who wants this Thing to perform this Function; is busy; has correctly assessed your level of competence; and trusts you to get 'er done. This is rare. It is, however, also difficult to write job descriptions with exactly the right amount of detail. Insufficient detail could be due to laziness; unfamiliarity with the oDesk system; lack of knowledge (which is after all why the buyer is getting a professional in)...lots of reasons. The best way of approaching this -I believe- is to use the application letter and interview to clear up any ambiguities and to focus in on the specs so that you and the client both agree on what the job actually is and where the boundaries are. If you start the job and only have a vague idea of what the client wants, you are going to have problems. Possibly big problems if the job description also states...

 

Unlimited redo A job description containing these words should be approached with caution. Particularly with website work, as you're essentially agreeing to maintain it forever as part of the deal. Add a bit of mission creep to a contract like this and you're in a world of hurt. I always specify 'reasonable amount of re-do' in the cover letter. It's a contract and you should never agree to something that can suck up an infinite amount of your time for free. I understand that buyers want their work the way they want it and the 'unlimited' is mostly just a way of ensuring that their needs will be met. You, the contractor, also needs to ensure that you're covered, so best to renegotiate this phrase.

 

"Send us ID" This is not needed to work at oDesk. Don't do it or you will be very sorry. Verify who you are through oDesk, if you must, but ***NEVER*** send ID; bank account details, PayPal, eBay or any other information that can be used by ID-theft types.

 

Write to me outside of odesk This isn't necessarily a problem...everyone has their preferred methods of communication. At the first hint of paying outside of oDesk you should run away quickly: It's against oDesk rules; will get your account terminated if you're caught; and you will probably get stiffed by the buyer anyway.

 

Phishing (Thanks Santos!) The way this works is that someone sends you a link (usually an obscured one like "http://bit.ly/whatever"). This takes you to a page that *looks like* a login page to a common internet service (Gmail, Paypal, Amazon, whatever), but isn't. What the page is, is a copy of that login screen and the idea is that you type your password in and it gets captured by naughty people. It's then standard practice to use that email/username/password on lots of other common services to see if they work. If you 1) fall for it and 2) use the same password everywhere, you're stuffed. Don't trust an obscured link; and ALWAYS check the URL on a login screen, just to make sure you're in the place you think you are. Personally, I go a little further than that and keep a link with my (encrypted) password file and I only use my local link to visit web services.

 

Good luck out there!

981 REPLIES 981
steph_hillsgrove
Community Member

Amazing list! Thank you for sharing!

 

New to Upwork I am finding myself questioning some of the postings; is this too good to be true, 50+ proposals (omg!) and/or my time is worth more than a very very low dollar amount/hour, right?!?! Your list reinforces I am on the right path – yes, it is too good to be true, pass on that one, and *high five* for not compromising.

 

I am very optimistic that I will find great jobs here and build good freelancer-client relationships. If you have any more tips to share with a newbie, I’m listening!

 

Thanks again!

 

darrenwall74
Community Member

I'm still learning, and as such feel like I've been fleeced (ripped off) by a client I recently finished a job for.

 

The Job was to produce, five articles with a 15th of May delivery date.

 

Part way through the job, with three articles completed, the client changed the target audience from UK to US. So as the articles where product based and organised by price, I had to go back and research the prices for the US market.

 

I was not happy with this, but pushed on and completed the articles. However, I was then asked to upload to their Wordpress for which the back-end was broken. It seemed like there was a plugin causing erroneous code to be inserted, which was disrupting the layout of the articles.

 

I approached the client about this and they said they would look into it, but the issue took me past the initial delivery date (although they had the articles) and the issue was not my fault.

 

My problem with this is, they gave me a mark down in the job feedback for adherence to delivery date! Which as you can imagine is a complete joke. 

 

I think I already know the answer to this one, but I'll ask anyway. Is there anyway I could dispute the feedback I was given?

 

 

b_zani
Community Member

this post is very helpful for newbies like me,

 

Thank You.

mishoweliam
Community Member

hi there thanks for this precious information but may i ask why in cases money be pending one week ???

Hi Misho,

 

There is a 6-days hold for all transactions on Upwork for security reasons. During that period the funds will show under the Pending tab.

~ Valeria
Upwork
prahlad1981
Community Member

Excellent compilation of signs that foretell you that a bad client/project is on your way. Below are a few more tips that I've come across through my freelancing experience:

 

1. Be cautious when you read phrases like "bypass CAPTCHA", "clone this website", "scrape website", "pull contacts", etc. in the job description. CAPTCHA breaking is going to adversely impact the website you are trying to break and not something an ethical developer should do. Web scraping also falls in a grey area of legality depending on the copyright terms of the website you are scraping - its better to have all those details and think about it before you say yes for any web scraping project.

 

2. Be cautious of clients who take you for a ride. Its been my experience that a lot many clients nickel and dime to screw up the last ounce of work from a freelancer (TBH, there are freelancers too who do this!). I've had clients in the past who insisted that I not bill them hourly for some specific work saying, "But its only a small task, right?" or "Oh, I'm sure you can fix it in a jiffy".

 

Your success in the area of freelancing ultimately depends on how you spot the good clients from bad ones early on in the project cycle. You will get some hints early on if you review the past projects of the client and feedback received for them. Conversely, you should establish good relations and strive to deliver your best to good clients who don't take you for a ride.

 

3. Make sure there is money in your client's bank. I always prefer hourly projects over fixed price ones simply because of the Upwork guarantee that is involved in hourly billing. But some times, you have to work on a fixed price project as the project is too large and could be very expensive if billed on hourly basis, or for some reason, the client wants to work with a fixed budget. In such cases, make sure of at least two things before you say yes to a project:

    i. The client has a verified payment method.

    ii. The client has completed payments on their past projects.

 

If any of the above tests fail and you still want to work on a project for some reason, then make sure to add the first milestone payment and call it "Advance" before you schedule any actual delivery milestones. Thats the only way of protecting you in that situation. Don't fall in the trap of thiking that you are a newbie freelancer and have to "compromise" on that front. It is simply not true, remember that in a perfectly competetive market like Upwork, there are no barriers to entry. If there is competetion among freelancers who bring the price down by bidding, there is an even more competetion among clients to get the best talent for the job and collectively, they push the price up using the same process! Don't underestimate your worth.

 

4. Make sure you are clear about the IP rights: Until the client pays you, the copyright for your code stays with you, but what happens after that is also not something clear. Unless you made an explicit agreement about ownership of the code (or there is some implicit agreement made when you accepted the Upwork T&C), that question remains unanswered. So, my recommendation is to make that agreement unless you are prepared to throw away your code and grant all rights to the client. Many a times, you may want to reuse certain parts of a project in another project. In such a situation, choosing to keep some rights on things like utility code is a wise decision.

clbryson
Community Member

I keep getting spam job offers to interview...ie, offers to go off Upwork, set up Google chat, etc. The email says they come from or through Upwork. Is there a way to filter these without  completely losing visibility? I'm new and want legitimate offers .

 

 

Thank you

iva83
Community Member

Another warning signs are jobs "recommended" by "recruiters".  These can be insulting. The idea of somebody determining that I need help is slightly offensive.

@Carlene

 

There is no way of filtering. But when you get this sort of invitation, you should report it immediately to CS and block the client on your message page from any further contact.

 

@Iva

 

Unfortunately, there is no way of telling who a real Upworker recruiter is, and who is an imposter. The best thing to do is to check with CS, or come to the forum, when you get a 'recruiter' invitation. Sometimes those recruiter jobs are for real.

 

Thank ypu. How do I report it?

iva83
Community Member

I can understand the latter, but if my hourly rate says $35, why am I being invited to design a website that's worth less than three hours of my time? 


@Iva T wrote:

I can understand the latter, but if my hourly rate says $35, why am I being invited to design a website that's worth less than three hours of my time? 


 Iva, if I could answer that question, I would be on Upwork's staff not a freelancer. 🙂


@Iva T wrote:

I can understand the latter, but if my hourly rate says $35, why am I being invited to design a website that's worth less than three hours of my time? 



Iva, invitation is a different thing than job recommendations. Recommendations are sent by upwork, but invitations are sent to you directly by the clients. For example, if I were a client, I can send you an invite for any of my stupid jobs regardless of your hourly rate. I don't think any check exists whereby a freelancer can actually filter out clients from sending them invitations.

Anonymous-User
Not applicable


@Iva T wrote:

I can understand the latter, but if my hourly rate says $35, why am I being invited to design a website that's worth less than three hours of my time? 


Some clients/farmers do not care about quality, they just want to get the service as cheap as possible and do not even take the time to check the freelancer's hourly rate. I rather often get invitations to job offers with ridiculous low budgets. Perhaps I am suggested to the clients by the algorithm. Because of that I have to reject at least 90% of the invitations.

iva83
Community Member

I do the same. The thing is, this was a result of a recruiter's meddling. if somebody is a recruiter, they should have a hunch of who will work for such a person and who won't.

berenty-kirsten
Community Member

PLEASE PLEASE. Get rid of this guy. Tell others not to fall in his trap. This should be on your list as well.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 
He messages me asking for me to accept his proposal. I accept. He asks for an interview. I accept. We go to Skype and he changes the job. You can see below what he asks of me. SCAM SCAM SCAM!!!!

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Hi Kirsten,

 

It's not allowed to share private communication in the Community, but I will forward your report to the team so they can review and take actions.

 

Thank you!

~ Valeria
Upwork
m-asghar
Community Member

Thank you. That is great community work. I have learnrd a lot. Best Wishes.

 

mcmaya_megs
Community Member

Oh!  this really helped me a lot..thank you to those who sent this warnig.

leonard-earl
Community Member

Just wanted to give an update that this "job poster" is still operating, as I just yesterday received a rfp and interview from this individual.  I think it is odd, however, that the individual is showing as being a member of Upwork for only 3 days now and is already indicated as having a verified payment method with Upwork. 

 

Sigh:: I suppose if they get smarter, we will have to get smarter as well!

I haven't received any more spam but I haven't applied for any jobs. It seems to happen shortly after I apply for something.

sueromero
Community Member

Thank you for this post! I guess my first job was a scam. But now I'm warned!

ravi_iitian
Community Member

Sophisticated Scams

 

This is a case where the client frequently fumbles in setting up and funding milestones, but eventually not only pays the full amount but also leaves a glowing feedback.

 

Sort of like fattening for the kill.

 

Then, when you let your guard down, the client fleeces you.

 

You keep thinking that this is just another fumble, and the client will eventually pay.

 

But it’s a bye-bye!

 

In such cases, the client could have a great profile in LinkedIn, but the profile is probably a fake.

 

The tell-tale sign for this kind of scam is a long list of “Jobs in progress,” having little or no payment.

 

 

Your payment can be reversed even after a project is successfully completed and closed, accompanied with a great feedback—the “friendly fraud”

 

Apparently (because Upwork has not officially responded), the fixed-price jobs are not adequately protected.

 

This scam is carried out by using a chargeback.

 

Not much you can do about this, except study the client’s history for glowing feedback accompanied with little or no payment.

 

For more on chargeback, please search the net.

 

For hourly jobs:

 

Unknown client invites you and wants to get started immediately

 

Always give yourself enough time to assess the client.

 

Check the client’s history.

 

Look out for jobs that have been ended abruptly.

 

Client interacts with you while you are doing his/her rush job

 

Either ignore the client’s messages, or message the client that you are busy.

 

You can get thrown off and make really silly mistakes (particularly in editing jobs).

 

Client asks too many questions regarding why you made certain changes

 

Sometimes, clients do ask questions out of curiosity.

 

Sometimes, they are taking a crash course, with the intention of letting you go soon.

 

Client is from a different time zone but expects an almost instant response

 

If you are being paid to be online, the client obviously expects you to be available at the pre-agreed time.

 

Otherwise, expecting a nearly instant reply from a provider in a different time zone is uncalled for.

 

Get out of the contract ASAP.

 

Client is overly enthusiastic

 

Great! Fantastic! Rock star!

 

This could be the sign of a moody client.

 

Get out of the contract ASAP.

"Certa bonum certamen"

MURGA

Make Upwork Really Great Again
farrah-felice
Community Member

this actually helps for a beginner, great job out there!

carolynsorrell
Community Member

One thing that has happened to me on fixed price jobs, is that the guy I work directly with is just some low level project manager. He will try to get you to do the work, then tell you he didn't like the work so he doesn't have to pay for it. Then the guy can pocket the money that HIS client paid him to get it done.

 

I handle this by notifying this thief that he cannot use my work without paying for it and that I am about to send a letter to the website/business owneer to notify them that my work cannot appear on their website since it was never paid for. 

 

Once the low level PM realizes that I'm about to contact his boss and tell him that the guy was trying to steal his and my money, the PM will go ahead and release your payment. You are well within your rights to notify a business owner in writing that they are in copyright violation if they use work you've produced that has not been paid for. 

clbryson
Community Member

Unfortunately I was the victim of a phishing scam on here. The guy who contacted me sounded legit and as a newbie I fell for it. Extremely disappointed there seem to be so many scammers on here and apparently no way to prevent them.

Hi Carlene,

 

I'm sorry about your bad experience with this client. I see our team assisted you in protecting your account, has taken action against the job post and client's account. Going forward, please check any suspicious link that requests your sensitive information with out Support team before sharing your details.

 

To help you work safely on Upwork, please have a look at tips and warning signs shared in this thread and our Trust & Safety FAQ.

 

~ Vladimir
Upwork

I do appreciate being notified, however I never shared any info with anyone. I simply replied to a " job offer" via the Upwork app.  I've received several of these scam offers now so I think I recognize them but I do think it's a major security issue that it's so easy for them to open accounts.  Out of approx 5 or 6 job offers, only 1 was legitimate. 

Hi Carlene,

 

Just to clarify, by sharing your information I was referring to using the link the client sent you, and going through the sign up process on it.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Ah okay..yes I unfortunately did that before I read about the different kind of scams. 

colleenezzell
Community Member

I got my first invitation to interview for a personal assistant job today, and after a few e-mail exchanges, I  realized that there were just too many red flags.  She'd have one of her clients send me a cashier's check, the funds from which I was to buy items (to be specified later) and send them to an orphanage (to be identified later), and that my first week's salary would be included in that check.

 

I pled ignorance and said that I thought she had to pay Upwork and that Upwork would pay me, and that I thought there was a contract involved.  I said that since I assumed she had done this before (hired through Upwork),  I would leave it to her to contact you about these concerns and I would wait to hear from her again as well as from Upwork.

 

I may have suspicioned myself out of a job, but I don't want to be banned before I get my first job!     Should I be sending you copies of our e-mail exhange, or can you bring up the job posting by searching my name?  Just tell me if there's  anything I can/should do if indeed this is a scam.

 

Thanks for your attention,

Colleen Ezzell

Hi Colleen,

 

You are right to be suspicious of this job. It is against Upwork ToS to offer and accept payments outside of the platform. I'll follow up with the team to make sure actions are taken against the job and accounts involved.

 

Thank you.

~ Valeria
Upwork
galapi
Community Member

Job warning sign must put on freelancer candidates this would help minimize work problem.

Thank you very much.
c0nsilience
Community Member

  • Micromanagers - avoid at all costs.  They will literally do nothing but drive you up a wall.  If you're new, there are better ways to build your portfolio.
  • Projects that have 50+ proposals and the Client is interviewing half of the applicants
  • The co-developer - anyone that wants you to teach them how to do what you do.
  • Multiple Initial meetings/phone calls  - after awhile, you need to charge a consulting fee.  "Why buy the cow when the milk is free".
  • Other Developers - as much as it pains me to say, try to avoid sub-scontracted work.  A lot of these situations arise when someone takes on much more than they can handle, drags their client along, and then passes the buck to you while skimming off of the top.  So, you're making less money than they client originally thought it was worth and you'll have your back against a deadline wall.
  • Tire Kickers - You get invited to submit a proposal for a project that seems greenlighted, than they disappear...only to sometimes re-appear several months later.

 

That's it for now.

davidd1008
Community Member

I know this has been said a few times already but basically ANY kind of "test" or "freebie" offer or asking if you'd be willing to work on a "trial basis." etc..

 

I get that some clients are wary of hiring people remotely but that's what your feedback rating/success rate/portfolio is for.

 

I recently came across a really neat sounding opportunity that I wanted to apply for and at the end the client wrote "would you be willing to work on a trial basis for 14 days?" Competely soured me. And the rest of the gig sounded fairly legit as well but there's no way I'm working for free for two weeks just to prove myself. 

davidd1008
Community Member

Oh, and another one that gets me is clients who are looking for services that they theoretically should know about but clearly don't know about since they won't give more information. Often under the guise of "I don't want to tell you how to do it, I want to see what you come up with" or "I shouldn't have to hold your hand."

 

Clearly a RED light that this is sub sub contracting. Which in and of itself isn't bad. I've formed some good relaitonships with clients that simply send me some work overflow with very specific instructions, i.e. "the client wants a 500 word article written on how dolphins are really smart." That's fine. 

 

But then I get a client who says something like "Rewrite the website content."

 

"Okay, what are we going for? What kind of changes do we want?"

 

"Just redo it."

 

Oh, okay. Look, I'm picking up your slack here but you should have as vested an interest in doing a good job as I do. I need to know what your client is expecting from you, what you promised them, etc.. or at the very least what my deliberables need to be. 

 

 

davidd1008
Community Member

Any offer to do anything outside of Upwork, including conversation.

 

Let me explain... sometimes when I work with company clients (as opposed to individuals), they'll want to skype or have a phone call just to be assured there's a real person over here who is who he says he is. It puts some clients at ease. Other times when working for a company I'll need access to company websites or analytics accounts, Wordpress login, etc... That's all fine.

 

But probably.... 6 or 7 times out of 10 when someone asks me to contact them outside of Upwork I decline. Usually they ask immediately upon starting the interview process, i.e. "hey thanks for applying for the job. Do you have skype?" 

 

To which I say "I do, but I prefer to keep things through Upwork for the time being." Magically they disappear after that. Most of them anyway. And the ones I do go chatting with usually immediately want to know if I want to be paid outside of Upwork or if I'd be willing to do something else that doesn't sound savory. 

 

A lot of clients, especially first-timers don't know the proper way to do things and need to be educated, but beware, there are a LOT of scammers out there. 

 

The best advice I can give a newcomer is this: Learn that you do NOT have to take every job you're offered. Learn to be discerning and focus on developing a good rapport with real clients that will pay you real money. I have turned down jobs I got a bad feeling about and many of them "paid" good money too. But if the offer is a fake and the client is a scammer- you're not going to see that money anyway and you'll wind up doing a lot of work for nothing but a headache and a sour taste in your mouth. 

 

 

davidd1008
Community Member

Mostly for Newcomers: Beware of interview offers that come out of nowhere. 

 

If you're new and haven't done any jobs yet or maybe you've only done one- I don't mean this to be insulting, but unless you know the client, you probably aren't going to get a ton of legit invitations to interview. Best case: they see you're new so they think you'll work for a lower rate. Worst case: they're not legit jobs.

 

This isn't 100% the case and I'm not saying newcomers should turn down every offer they receive, I'm just saying approach it with caution, a raised eyebrow if you will. If you don't have much feedback or work history, ask yourself: why would they approach me? 

re: "would you be willing to work on a trial basis for 14 days?"

 

Yes, I'm willing to do that. After you pay me for 14 days on a trial basis, I'll be happy to do so.

jammer123
Community Member

Any client that tells you he....

 

1. Knows  how to do the job like an expert - AVOID, RED LIGHTS, thunder, when I hear this, I hit the close button on the tab faster than the flash can getI to Iris.

 

2. Client who wants to continually talk....AVOID.

 

3. Client that says he knows everything about what you do - again AVOID.

 

4. Clients that dont mention your name when contacting you. Sorry this might sound weird, but seriously how much effort, time does it take to address someone by someones name when contacting them. In all my time on Upwork I have never accepted these clients. Perhaps I have lost tens of thousands but Im not a prostitute. If you dont have manners, sorry we cant work together.

 

I can copy past their name in 2 seconds. This is just rude and immediately tells me that they zero manners. I was brought up & taught that manners dont cost you anything yet cost you everything in life.

 

5. Clients that mention the position is going to start in 2 months time - Avoid.

 

6. Startups, new project launches.

 

7. Short on budget

 

8. Clients that ask you to guarantee you can get them buyers (if you do marketing) for a specific price - how can I know what the market place will want? No one can possibly know before hand without testing.

 

9. Clients who doubt your skills during an interview or argue about a specific skill set - let me give you a perfect example.

 

I am a senior level marketer, I worked for many companies, keep my skills up to date on a weekly basis with training seminars/webinars. I have been doing this a long, long time.

 

When I discuss a skill set with a client (because I have marketed just about on every platform online) and the client begins questioning, doubting my abilities, I stop right there, thank them for their time & say adios.

 

They can hire someone else, I dont need that so early on in the conversation - These clients are nightmares. I come from an agency background, I have met these sort of clients, discussed with these sorts of clients face to face and you cant get rid of them, other than firing them or handing their accounts to another agency.

 

10. Continuously testing your abilities. Never happy, best to leave.

 

11. Clients that think you work 7 days a week - Had this about 2 months back, the client contacted me everyday expecting me to come back to him. He was a work junkie and I like to take time off.  once per week. Make this upfront though before accepting the contract.

 

12. Clients who ask for your skype address - Sorry! 30 applicants, how is this client going to add them all to skype? I never apply for these positions, what will happen is out of the blue 7 months later they will want to contact you because some freelancer they worked with has left because of all the rules above mentioned - This client is looking to build a database of Upwork freelancers and you are just a number - AVOID.

 

13. NGOS/Churches - I love Church, I love the principles but the money just doesnt fall out of heaven. They including NGOS want you to do work for no cost and loads of it. Avoid.

 

14. How do I do this clients - I have a quick question, can you show me how to do this with this. The learner client, cant afford to pay someone on a part time basis and want you to spoon feed them for free during the interview process. During the interview, you will be questioned on how do to XYZ, you wont hear back from them and then a few months later your skype will buzzz " hey can you tell me, can you show me how to do xyz" AVOID these clients.

 

15. Clients that request during the interview process you be available at a certain time in 3-5 days - Please avoid these. It sounds like hogwash or Rubbish "why wouldnt you schedule this?" Let me tell you, in all my time on this platform - 4 years now as a freelancer, I have never had a client who schedules an interview this far out keep to their time commitment - never. So you plan your entire day around this interview and it doesnt materialize on the day and time. Dont waste your time, ask for your connect back. 1 day out is fine, if they schedule a specific time a day out but anything more than 3 days is no no for me - thats a personal one and one that Im sure many will find beneficial.

 

16. Nasty tone in their questions. Everyone knows you can pick up a clients tone in the way they write their job description and the questions they ask. If you pick up, get any negative vibe. Save your connects. Its your 6th sense kicking in and its always right! Listen to it.

 

17. If something sounds/feels weird move on. You are probably right/correct.

 

18. Loads of low paying jobs - never going to consider hiring you if you are more on the expensive side - but hey, you get what you pay for.

 

19. Interviewing many diff people for the job.

 

20. Wants to hire 2 of you for the same position - what he/she/**Edited for Community Guidelines** is trying to do is figure out which of the 2 of you are the best and then sack/fire the one he doesnt like - do you want to work with such people if you already have good feedback? No, avoid these positions.

 

Now how to choose the ideal client 🙂

 

Pays, doesnt speak, never wants contact, you never hear from he/she/it, lets you get on with it. - aka the dream, but that is just it " A dream" - unfortunatly you have to way up opportunity cost and so far, working on Upwork has become a liability because you find all the above clients now on Upwork and have to pay to apply for these jobs.

 

My suggestion - go find a job! Atleast you get time off, possibly some pension time and its not always on your mind! Trust me, 4 years later you are actually further behind working on Upwork than if you just went to work and got a real job. The market place is still to young to cater for grown ups, you have some good months but mostly its up/down. Get a job, build a business. This is a not a business, not when you compete with people charging $3 per hour and who can survive on $500 per month.

 

That is the best suggestion - stop buying connects, look for a job. I know its not what you might want to hear but I have been there, done it, tried all the platforms, Odesk worked the best but they decided they wanted a new goose to lay golden eggs, this goose only lays rotten eggs.

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