Why are there so many Scams?

[c639ac58]

I realize we should be looking out for red flags- but really, I've gotten such a large number of scam proposals and zero actual freelance clients. Beginning to feel very discouraged 😞

[sofia2008]

Why are there so many scams? Because there are many freelancers who are not ready to use the platform properly, and are breaking rules the don't even know they signed up for.

The Readiness Test should be more elaborate and mandatory to start applying to jobs. Many versions should be administered for subsequent trials.

[75f7010a]

Thank you for your great information. 

[801ea7fb]

Thank you for you reply Sophie! It answers the question and provides a solution.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

The fact is as someone who has been a freelancers for over 2 decades and knows a scam when he sees one, there are many people that are not as seasoned as the people who have been on here awhile. Pair that with the fact that the sign up process for this platform is a hit the ground running one. Meaning that you do not even need to have a full fledged profile to begin applying for jobs. So for someone needing to find jobs right away and are new to free lancing in the first place, if you give them the chance to jump right in, they will.

Accusing these people of breaking rules and calling them ignorant is at best not helpfull.

The sole purpose of these discussion boards are for people to ask questions and seek help. It should not count against them how long they have been members or what their skill level is or isn't.

It is a very fair question to ask why there are so many fake and scam accounts on here. As someone that builds their business on getting real work, don't you want to make it stop rather than live with it? Don't you want to know that every job you see on the market is legitimate? And when a flood of people begin asking why there are so many, is the real answer "because you're ignorant and a rule breaker" or is it that upwork did not do a good job at screening their clients AND did not create a proceedure to let us know up front before we jump into the frey that their platform is full of scammers.

Yes, we need to spend the time preparing our profiles before jumping in. Yes upwork should require a full profile before allowing us to jump in. Also upwork should take threads like these serious and be active with them. Maybe during the login process they have an announcement or warning that their platform allows scamming and force them to read a page agreeing on how to sift through the many scam listings. Or I don't know, maybe do something about the scamming in the first place?

I apologize in advance for creating any scammers due to my ignorance.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Accusing these people of breaking rules and calling them ignorant is at best not helpful"

Jared:

Nobody here is accusing anyone of anything.

The original poster asked a question.

We provided her with an accurate, factual answer to her question.

[prestonhunter]

There are so many scams because:

a) freelancers being ignorant 

b) freelancers breaking the rules

c) freelancers doing both

[pgiambalvo]

Sorry, Preston, your advice and answers are usually valuable and spot on, but...

Freelancers fall victim to so many scams because:

a) freelancers being ignorant 

b) freelancers breaking the rules

c) freelancers doing both

There are so many scams because:

a) Upwork will not do more to keep them from being posted in the first place.

[prestonhunter]

Peter:
I was NOT answering a question about why freelancers fall victim to scams.

The original poster asked: "Why are there so many scams?"

Jared's wording indicated that he might have thought I was blaming the original poster for something? That makes no sense. The original poster was simply asking a question, and received answers to her question.

You appear to be blaming Upwork for the scams.

But Upwork does not post the scams.

An obvious position to take might be "there are scams because scammers post scams."

But that doesn't get to the MAIN SOURCE of the problem, which is freelancer behavior.

So we CAN say that Upwork itself and scammers themselves are part of the reason why there are so many scams. But the ultimate root cause is freelancer ignorance and freelancers breaking rules.

If freelancers did not send money to scammers, then scammers wouldn't be here.

[pgiambalvo]

Yes, the original question was why there are so many, which I take to mean, why do so many exist here. I believe it's because Upwork won't do more to stop them, not because of freelancers' behavior. Their behavior certainly encourages scammers to post because they may be successful, but if it were harder for them to post, that would become less relevant. Freelancers are no more or less gullible now than they've ever been, so why the increase? It has to be because of something else, namely, Upwork having changed something that enabled more of them to appear.

[801ea7fb]

Preston, you missed the point of this post. You cherry picked the original posters question which was meant to ask why the platform allows so many scams in the first place and jumped on the bandwagon of accusing the freelancers.

Of course a scammer that is successful is going to continue to go to the well. But the solution is not acceptable or at least shouldn't be that the freelancers be the ones to have to sort out the scammers. It is ridiculous to say that if freelancers didn't send money to scammers they wouldn't be here. Had upwork had a better screening system and didn't allow the scammers in in the first place, then this wouldn't even be a post. This is 100% on upwork.

[pgiambalvo]

And in my opinion, another answer to the question that was posed could be surmised from the following hyothetical conversation:

Morning meeting:

“So how many new job posts did we get yesterday?”

“X number.”

“That’s great! The Board will be very pleased!”

“But shouldn’t we tell them what percentage of those were scams that artificially inflate that number?”

“No. And you’re fired.”

[pgiambalvo]

1. Upwork doesn’t stop the same obvious scams from being posted over and over again

2. A freelancer falls victim to them because they break the rules

2 can’t happen without 1 happening first.

[e7e33c76]

Stop blaming freelancers for Upwork's problems. We are the one's that bring all income to this site. We deserve some protection. Upwork is harboring and promoting scams!

[m_terrazas]

---

Keri A wrote:

Stop blaming freelancers for Upwork's problems. We are the one's that bring all income to this site. We deserve some protection. Upwork is harboring and promoting scams!

---

The ones who really bring in the money here are the customers.
If Preston is blaming freelancers it's because if they weren't mostly lazy (they don't read the TOS they claim to have read) and/or greedy (they think they know more than the client and can cheat them and that Upwork will protect them if the payment fails ).
I don't know if you're new here on the forums, but all you have to do is search for scammed freelancers and dive until you see the real reason why they were scammed.
And remember that there are two sides there are also a fair amount of scammers among freelancers.

Upwork does not filter either one or the other.

And the accusation you make to Upwork seems a bit strong, don't you think?

[e7e33c76]

Stop blaming freelancers for Upwork's problems. We are the one's that bring all income to this site. We deserve some protection. Upwork is harboring and promoting scams!

[lesaartdesign]

Great, could you then provide constructive feedback on this?

I was bidding on a job that has a legit and long brief, ID confirmed, payment guaranteed, and no ratings but some people are new to the platform and we cannot ignore them, their ID is confirmed.

The bid was 12 or 16 connects which isn't a small amount, the answer I got from them is to send my info to some sketchy email. Now, I spent my connects nobody is refunding it I know it's a scam I don't want to send an email.

How do I now fit in your description that's the second job this month for me with the same outcome, the first one was for designing a logo and I got the number to call over WU, and the second one with the email.

Was I ignorant or was I breaking the rules?

You see the problem is spending the connects, bidding on jobs, and then getting sketchy and scam messages. Is it ok from the platform where you have to buy connects, have to pay a plus, and give 10% of your earnings?

But I am glad we have helpful experts like you here.

[m_terrazas]

If you mark both the job and the message asking you to communicate outside of Upwork, the job will be deleted as misleading and your connects will be returned.

[colettelewis]

Jaya, 

Obiviously you can spot a scam a mile away, but I think part of the reason for your getting so many scam proposals is that you are offering too many skills on your profile. You are a graphic artist, stick to that and don't offer skills that you may not be experienced in or that don't really interest you!  Some major scam bait skills for newcomers  are the following:

Data entry 

Virtual assistant

Virtual assistance

Customer support

Writing (Oversubscribed anyway)

Editing (Oversubscribed anyway)

Meditation (How are you going to offer this remotely?)

I would suggest you remove them from your profile and see what happens when you apply for the jobs you are qualified for and have experience in, and see if you get any responses from real clients who are looking for these skills.  It takes a while to get traction on Upwork, but don't diversify before you get real freelancing experience in your skill set.  

Note: The skills I have mentioned are real skills and many freelancers do very well out of them, but very often newcomers put them in because they seem easy to do. Scammers lie in wait for the inexperienced. Don't be one of them. 

[pgiambalvo]

Hey, folks! A proofreader is urgently needed! This must be a legit post since the other 50 of them that appear daily for the past 6 months are eventually removed after being flagged as scams and then investigated! I am SO applying!

[AndreaG · Accepted solution]

Hi all,

While we'll continue to allow criticism, posts that come without constructive feedback or are disparaging of other members won't be allowed. Forums like the Community are at their best when participants treat each other with respect and courtesy.

We do appreciate your participation, so please be considerate of this in your future replies.

[arturo73]

Andrea a community where we cannot talk about scams is a scammer community. Do my constructive and positive contribution is that you allow user talk about the real problems they encounter. I was scammed twice and had Zero support and had to pay myself a a job that was done and delivered.

[e7e33c76]

Please address the issue rather than blocking us from discussing the issue. Upwork's lack of respopnsibility is what is the root of the issue, not freelancers discussing the issues we battle daily to use your site. Users should be discouraged from using this site because it's a nest of phishing and id theft that we PAY FOR. Upwork needs to change!

[manxman743]

I am fairly new to Upwork, and had started to wonder why so many obvious scams were appearing. They show up under my legitimate search terms, and I consider it a hassle to have to wade through them. And they break obvious rules. Well, from what I read today, part of the problem is that an "employer" can post for free. Maybe they should have to pay an initiation fee that is refunded during their first successful hire. Might that cut back on the scam posts?

[m_terrazas]

No. It has been discussed hundreds of times already. Upwork will not do that.

[gilbert-phyllis]

Nope. Bad idea.

There have always been scammers around (just as there are on any platform and in the b&m world). As the pandemic started wreaking havoc in the workplace, more and more people started trying out freelancing, many without the first clue what it entails or how to go about it. We started seeing more and more activity in the forum reflecting this cluelessness and willingness to dive in head first without understanding how the platform works or how to operate safely and profitably here. Meanwhile, UW continued its policy of no meaningful vetting of new FLs beyone verifying their identity (which is far from infallible). When the population of naive and/or reckless FL newbies reached critical mass, the scammers began to swarm. There is no way for UW to get rid of them without creating intolerable hassle for legitimate clients--and those of us who earn our livings from the latter. As long as it's a target-rich environment, the scammers will never leave.

Yes, it's a hassle to wade through scam job posts but as you refine your own strategy for searching, bidding and landing the projects you want, you'll be bothered less and less. Meanwhile, don't bother suggesting any countermeasure that would introduce friction into the client's experience. UW spends millions attracting clients and has no interest in discouraging them once they arrive. And those of us who can efficiently sidestep the scams and make good money working with new clients don't want anything to interfere with those clients giving UW a try.

Any FL who complies with the ToS will automatically avoid nearly all the scams. Any FL who can't be bothered to learn the ToS and/or knowingly flouts them, has no business here anyway. The sooner they get discouraged and go away, the better for everyone.

[manxman743]

The issue I had with the particular job post that led me to make my initial comment showed no obvious "I am a scam" text. It really did sound legit. Their initial reply to my proposal definitely sounded very much like a scam, so I removed my proposal. So, I wasted my 4 connects. If a potential client posts a scam project that comes across as a real world legitimate project, how do I avoid wasting connects?

p.s.  I am a computer software developer and the post that may have been a scam used all the correct terminology when posting.

[martina_plaschka]

---

Richard K wrote:

The issue I had with the particular job post that led me to make my initial comment showed no obvious "I am a scam" text. It really did sound legit. Their initial reply to my proposal definitely sounded very much like a scam, so I removed my proposal. So, I wasted my 4 connects. If a potential client posts a scam project that comes across as a real world legitimate project, how do I avoid wasting connects?

p.s.  I am a computer software developer and the post that may have been a scam used all the correct terminology when posting.

---

Don't withdraw your proposal, you only get connects back when it is active when upwork removes the job posting for a ToS violation. Also, flag the job posting for a violation. 

If the client contacts you in messenger, block him there. 

[AndreaG]

Hi Richard,

We do return Connects if a job post is found to have violated our Terms of Service. That said, please note that we won't be able to return the Connects to you if you withdraw the proposal before the job post is actioned.

[manxman743]

Okay. Will remember that for next time.

[manxman743]

This one is new for me.

Brand new job.

Client just signed up to Upwork today.

Has contact info in first 2 lines.

Offering high hourly pay for simple sounding work.

Sounds like a scam, right?

Upwork flagged it as an "Interesting Job" !!!

[m_terrazas]

---

Richard K wrote:

This one is new for me.

Brand new job.

Client just signed up to Upwork today.

Has contact info in first 2 lines.

Offering high hourly pay for simple sounding work.

Sounds like a scam, right?

Upwork flagged it as an "Interesting Job" !!!

---

There are several scam threads, but the best is to go to this one:
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Blog/Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C/b...

Do not go crazy. Flag those that you think may be fine, but when opening or receiving a response from the client, you see that they are scams. If you dedicate yourself to flag all, you will despair.
Filter your feed so that as few as possible appear:
https://community.upwork.com/t5/New-to-Upwork/Filtering-Scam-Posts-How-to-use-the-Upwork-Advanced-Se...

[pgiambalvo]

You would think that in order get to be labled "Interesting," an actual human from Upwork would have had to view the job and immediatley spot that it violated the ToS and not allowed the job to be posted, or at the very leats, contact the client and tell them to remove the offending parts, but I guess that's not the case.

[ac455550]

I have the same issue !  First 3 wanted me to click on a link outside of Upwork and even one that was supposed to be in US is actually in Spain?! Payment methods was not verified. How do we work through this to get actual work ? I use tokens to apply and loose money clearly even before I started.

[pgiambalvo]

Read this to help you spot scams:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Blog/Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C/b...

[dcef6fb2]

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[janrozs]

The worst part is that when we apply to a scam, or to a job that asks us to work outside of Upwork or breaks the Upwork policy otherwise when we report them, Upwork thanks us. But very rarely do I see my connects refunded after that. The only way is to specifically request the connects refund via support which is so time-consuming that it isn't worth the value of connects. So we just let it go, and become more frustrated, distrustful, demotivated, and honest clients either turn dishonest and also start taking advantage of the loopholes in various ways or leave the platform. They just used the scammers to plague the platform for a period of downtime to get revenue at least from connects. But the effect was more devastating and it is already becoming clear that the exodus of quality clients and freelancers, has very longterm consequences. A decision of a few incompetent individuals who thought a short term fix can't make a harm eventually made our profiles built over several years worth a fraction of their previous value.

[dez_nicole]

Truth be told scammers find their way into every platform unfortunately however when applying to jobs and this is my #1 advice use the filter option and make sure to ONLY apply to clients whom are verified and show they have paid other freelancers as the filter option will show that information, NEVER apply to unverified clients it's a waste of time and 75% of the time they are scams. Also, make sure the client has good feedback from people who have worked for them or are rated more than 3 stars.

[e7e33c76]

The real reason is because Upwork doesn't check any posting for legitimacy. It relys on users to let them know. Meaning AFTER you encountereed issues. It was nothing to do with a freelancer following the rules. 

[e7e33c76]

I've been on the site for 4 years and there are no real jobs offered on this site at least for the past 3 months. I have applied for over 300 jobs and been scammed 6 times (back to back) over the past 3 months, reportitng them all.  Upwork has barely responded, left the scam posts up, and sent automated repsponses that simply excuse them from any responsibility or supporting me in anyway. But the freelancers are the people who bring job postings and fund this site. Why do we have zero support on Upwork? Not to mention scams should be addressed immediately, not a couple weeks after the fact. 

In the past I have been informed they check their postings BEFORE they post them, then I was informed by an executive at this company that they are only escrow and don't check their postings, relying on freelancers to flag the issue (meaning the freelancer absorbs all the risk).  Recently, they have started claiming they check their postings but the scam postings remain published for others to fall victim, so that is not true. They say use the work diary but I have been hacked and had 2 computers shut down and had to buy new ones from the work diary. It's not secure. After 4 years of reporting this, the site still thinks I am not in the US. There is a ton of details this site is ignoring and blaming freelancers for the problems. It's not us. 

Google top sites for freelancing. Upwork is NOT #1. They are the only ones that charge so much to apply.  They are making money on these postings and scams and exposing us to phising and id theft. They are not supporting themselves by hiring people or escrow. If this site is escrow, why aren't they telling us that upfront?

Many of their posters have no idea what the rules are.  Why are freelancers being left with the responsibility to educate the job posters and manage their honesty and legitimacy?  Upwork is negligent.  I don't work for Upwork and the are not paying me to manage their users. It's not my responsibility. 

Please report your scams to the Attonrey General in California so we can force this site to stop phising freelancers for profit. 

This has NOTHING to do with Freelancers followiung rules or using the system "properly". This is set up to profit off of our misfortune and assume zero responsibility. I have never been supported on this site as a frelancer but rather given a dance around legal terms of responsibility. What am I paying for? 

I am so disappointed in this site, it was good while it lasted.  It's time to join their competition. The only reason this is ongoing is because the freelancers allow it by not reporting their negiligence.  AG California is who you need becuase that is where they are located. If you want to be thorough, also report to your state's AG as well. 

[m_terrazas]

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Keri A wrote:

I've been on the site for 4 years and there are no real jobs offered on this site at least for the past 3 months. I have applied for over 300 jobs and been scammed 6 times (back to back) over the past 3 months, reportitng them all.

.................

---

Have you been scammed six times?
How is that possible?