Re: Job Post Generator (Beta) - Page 3

ShannonL S · ‎04-24-2023

Starting in late April, some clients can use a job post generator when posting a job.

Check out the product update for Job Post Generator (Beta) and let us know your thoughts about this update in the comments below.

Maria T · ‎05-18-2023

Gil S wrote:
..................................................................

And I think that the auto-generated disclaimer at the end ("Note: Some of the content in this job post may have been auto-generated using advanced AI.") can be deleted by the client, because now I sometimes don't see it, even though it is obvious that it was used.

It is obvious that it was used if you speak English. For those of us who are not, it is a warning to read the text more carefully than usual.
And I suppose there will be a lot of people, whether they speak English or not, who won't be able to distinguish it just like that. For some it will be a very well written text.

Jen D · ‎05-19-2023

It's ridiculous. This is not making Upwork a better platform or showcasing potentially great clients. Ai for the sake of AI and to fit into a trend is pointless.

Alper D · ‎05-18-2023

I noticed not all AI generated job posts have the disclaimer. So i'm now being more smart about my keyword exclusion to detect and discard more job posts. My feedback to the product team, you need to spend more time face to face with your users. A job post is not an SEO oriented article. It is a clients only chance to attract talented people.

William T C · ‎05-18-2023

Shannon,

Could Upwork consider a lesser character limit for both the freelancers and clients postings? Currently, the limit is so long that both freelancers and clients tend to not carefully read both the client post and freelancer cover letters.

Maria T · ‎05-18-2023

William T C wrote:
Shannon,

Has Upwork considered a greater character limit for both the freelancers and clients postings? Currently, the limit is so long that both freelancers and clients tend to not carefully read both the client post and freelancer cover letters.

If a job interests me, I don't care if it's long as long as that text is human and tries to explain what the client needs.
If it's a repetitive, meaningless, long wall of text, I'll read until I really realize I'm wasting my time.
Why shorten the maximum number of words? You write what you think is necessary.
What they should do is remove the AI nonsense for everyone.

Jeanne H · ‎05-18-2023

Leave the job posts, and especially the cover letters alone! I am quite capable of reading more than a couple of sentences, and so are my clients. Why is it such a problem for you? Why don't you get jobs with one sentence and leave the rest of us to do business?

Regarding cover letters, leave them alone! I know you and Upwork think 100 word proposals are fine, but that is your idea and does not fit me, or many experienced, advanced income, freelancers. Why do you insist on screwing things up and limiting freelancers because you don't want to read or write much? That is your choice. You don't see me demanding you write a real proposal the way I write them. I don't care what you write as long as you follow the rules, but leave the rest of us alone and allow us to conduct business as we see fit, not as you see fit.

Jonathan L · ‎05-18-2023

I don't think a reduction of the limit is strictly necessary, but I think that many job posts are too long. I think a good option would be some kind of warning text (not a popup) when a soft limit is reached that informs the poster that the job post has exceeded a recommended length based on attention and that it could negatively impact the number/quality of proposals received.

I think that is a good compromise between your suggestion and the interests of people like Jeanne H.

Maria T · ‎05-18-2023

Jonathan L wrote:
I don't think a reduction of the limit is strictly necessary, but I think that many job posts are too long. I think a good option would be some kind of warning text (not a popup) when a soft limit is reached that informs the poster that the job post has exceeded a recommended length based on attention and that it could negatively impact the number/quality of proposals received.

I think that is a good compromise between your suggestion and the interests of people like Jeanne H.

Well, I think they should leave it as it is and let each one decide the length of their ads/proposals.
Too many things are already changing without sense or for our bad. Let's not give them any more silly ideas.

Jonathan L · ‎05-18-2023

Well, I think they should leave it as it is and let each one decide the length of their ads/proposals.
Too many things are already changing without sense or for our bad. Let's not give them any more silly ideas.

There already is a limit, so clients' options for length are from zero to something-less-than-the-standard-length-of-a-job-posting-on-Indeed. The limit is obvious when the description is copy-pasted from a HR template and stops in the middle of a sentence.

Are you suggesting that Upwork remove the character limit altogether? Should they enable true walls of text? That will actually cost more money, because that is more data to host. Very little per job, but very little multiplied by a huge number can become a large number.

ETA: delete redundant statement in same sentence

Maria T · ‎05-18-2023

No Jonathan, I'm telling that they leave it as it is.

Above all I was replying to William who always has wonderful ideas, and to you afterwards for wanting them to change something else :))
We better leave it here, okay?

Jeanne H · ‎05-18-2023

I fail to see the need for any sort of warning on the amount of text. I have had great clients who had an entire page of requirement, and I was glad they did. My work can be extremely complicated and might require a page of needs. With the ongoing flood of freelancers, there are much bigger concerns on the health and functionality of this platform than how many words are in a job post or proposal.

Jonathan L · ‎05-20-2023

Jeanne, for you as a freelancer, there may not be any value in it. From a Client's perspective, where the goal is to procure capable talent, I think that any sort of simple notice that the job post is potentially sub-optimal or possibly even counter-productive can have immense utility, especially for people who are new to hiring.

If you personally don't care if the job post is succinct or overly descriptive, then why are you opposing suggestions that do not force them one way or the other? The Client still has control as they post their job. The job posts can remain lengthy (although the current limit is still less than some believe that they require - but supplemental attachments can fix that). The overall quality of job descriptions will likely become better, which can result in better response from better freelancers, which in turn can improve hiring rates and Client satisfaction.

Jeanne H · ‎05-20-2023

The overall quality of job descriptions will likely become better, which can result in better response from better freelancers, which in turn can improve hiring rates and Client satisfaction.

Again, where is your evidence? This broad statement is nothing but your opinion, with no data to back it up. Every time I asked you for proof of your statements, you tell me you have earned lots and lots of money, so you know best.

ChatGPT job ads are making the platform worse. Now clients think they have to use it or else they won't get the job ad correct. How do I know? Because I have over 30 clients who have told me so. You forget that Upwork is not the only way to freelance and not all clients who come here want to stay.

The job ads using ChatGPT are a mess, because ChatGPT is a mess. Long, ChatGPT garbage. You know the quality of ChatGPT writing as well as the rest of us, but you won't admit it.

If you are going to make grand statements, I would just like to see your evidence. Surely, you are not just assuming the overall quality of job descriptions will become better because people use ChatGPT.

Perhaps you don't see jobs ads often, but the ChatGPT ads are absurd, and I just skip over them. It is not helping job search, the clients, and especially not the freelancers. My evidence? Searching through hundreds of job posts, talking with and helping hundreds of freelancers, and speaking with potential clients, clients who find me outside of Upwork after getting 100+ garbage proposals, and clients who were not interested in using ChatGPT, and felt if Upwork was encouraging people to use it, they wanted nothing to do with the platform.

Jonathan L · ‎05-20-2023

Jeanne H wrote:

Every time I asked you for proof of your statements, you tell me you have earned lots and lots of money, so you know best.

I never do that.

Jeanne H wrote:

ChatGPT job ads are making the platform worse. Now clients think they have to use it or else they won't get the job ad correct. How do I know? Because I have over 30 clients who have told me so. You forget that Upwork is not the only way to freelance and not all clients who come here want to stay.

ChatGPT has nothing to do with word limits.

Marc C · ‎06-25-2023

Jonathan, the problem is that you will have less hints to vet your clients. Doing it over the Internet is already hard enough compared to real life. This just makes it even more difficult.

De first interaxion yu haf with the clien and the job is dat first pos and how is writen.

You'll agree with me that just the ortography alone makes you consider the author of that line differently (I exagerated, I give you that). But that's just the start.

All the jobs will look great, that is clear, but that does not change the person behind the post, the one you will have to deal with later on. If you fail vetting the client, you get caught in the middle of it and may end up risking negative reviews you may not deserve.

Imagine the already existing spam bots using the AI provided by none other than Upwork themselves, it won't be pretty.

Making an AI do the job can only make your life as a freelancer more miserable, I'm certain of it.

For the client this cannot end well either. If you fake your abilities (soft-skills included) when you actually start working this will not work because the "talented" freelancer will notice it and if you can't communicate well enough and you don't use AI all the time, this will fail miserably. The talented freelancer wants someone like him or better at the other side, just like the client.

That is exactly the same reason why freelancers should not hide behind an AI on a proposal, unless they plan on using it on every single bit of communication from then on.

Upwork should be there to match people who are happy working together, not to match people regardless of the success.

And that is why this is a very bad idea.

The topic about the length of posts is simply nonsense, no matter how many dollars has William earned on the platform. It is simply there to make us talk about something different and hide the actual issue. Reducing the length will actually only make it even worse for you to vet clients, for the exact same reasons explained above.

It is better to let everyone show themselves as they are. And if limiting the body length of the post does not change anything (you can always post lengthy explanations as attachments) then why are we even talking about it?? Why should Upwork spend time and money on doing something that is completely and utterly useless?

This is simply a silly idea and a waste of everyone's time, me included. Not evil, like the one about AI driven client posts. That one could be harmful for everyone, including William.

Kim F · ‎05-18-2023

William T C wrote:
Currently, the limit is so long that both freelancers and clients tend to not carefully read both the client post and freelancer cover letters.

How do you know this? Presumably, you have some solid evidence that this is the case, otherwise you wouldn't have said so.

Although on balance it's more important what the words are rather than how many of them fill the space (AI doesn't cut it), the more detailed job posts and my lengthier bids have turned out to be the most lucrative.

William T C · ‎05-18-2023

Kim,

I have completed about $1 million worth of Projects on the site so am very familiar with how the system works. In my professional opinion, fewer words submitted by both freelancers and clients get both Jobs and freelancer's responses better read. I have the same experience on other major platforms also.

Jeanne H · ‎05-19-2023

You may have determined this is how it works for you. However, no matter how many $$$$$$$$ you have earned, you don't know what it is like for others, or in other fields. Unless you have empirical data, this information is valid to you.

I know the current mantra is less, less, less, but you fail to understand that doesn't work for everyone. Also, there are more than a few of us who have experiences on various platforms, and in the physical world. Conducting business is more than how to use this one platform.

How much data do you have? How do you track the length of your proposal, and the length of yours, compared with the short and long versions of client posts?

Freelancers should not look at the number of words. Write what is necessary. If you get a job with 75 words, great. If it takes 1000, fine. Neither way is the only way, nor should it be held up as the gold standard.

Maria T · ‎05-20-2023

William, I'm so glad you've been so successful on Upwork, really, but do you have to wave your earnings like a flag every time you need to justify an answer?
It seems that you are the only one who knows everything about the platform and working as a freelancer, all this can be valid for newbies because it will blow their minds, but most of the time who you talk to are successful freelancers, although they do not have that much income.

Marc C · ‎06-25-2023

Seriously?????

Anna T · ‎05-18-2023

Hello. Can you show a screenshot of how this option looks on the client's side? Just wondering what the procedure is.

Alper D · ‎05-19-2023

After you select a category, title and timeline you are given a choice to have your description drafted by ai. So it pre populated the description box for you but you have a chance to edit before you finalize

Jen D · ‎05-19-2023

Is anyone else really disappointed by these AI generated generic job posts? First off they are incredibly long, like giant run on sentences (if a freelancer wrote a proposal like that we'd be ridiculed). And I have seen multiple jobs that are very different, yet have similar job descriptions and skills requirements. Wha?? Part of the beauty of Upwork has been finding unique roles to fill with interesting clients, and having a slightly more intimate way to apply for jobs and showcase my skills than on say, Indeed or Linkedin. With these new generic AI-generated job descriptions, all the required skills sound the same "critical thinking and analysis", "solid communication skills", "proven presentation skills", yadayadahyahdah. It's frustrating to read these, and also makes me wonder if it is really worth spending time trying to craft a thoughtful proposal if the client has not taken the time to be thoughtful in their job description. I think that intead, Upwork should perhaps offer clients job description templates or "AI guided" job descriptions/prompts, or even have reviewers checking job descriptions. Anyway I hope this beta is dropped and we go back to human beings thinking about and describing what and who they need for their unique job role.

Kim F · ‎05-30-2023

This explains really well what's wrong with AI generated text - by asking it to play noughts and crosses (or what it calls tic tac toe).

https://www.aiweirdness.com/optimum-tic-tac-toe/?fbclid=IwAR1WCxxLB5-44086A5BJtYl3NQcKKuq2yT8J_ENmXQ...

Isaiah A · ‎06-03-2023

If Upwork understood how AI will destroy their platform in the future, they wouldn't EVEN mention AI. Please stop this, it is a terrible idea in everyway possible. I don't want to get into too much details so as not to give ideas, but this is bad.

All these new job posts are too long and overly demanding. Upwork, PLEASE and PLEASE leave Chatgpt and all that crap alone. Everything was fine the way it was before.