Ablikim M wrote:
I don't understand, why is the Upwork team requesting them to only re-found 375$ after the agency took my 6000$ for useless code with incomplete projects.
Ablikim, with hourly contracts, you pay for the time that was spent working only, not any specific deliverable.
The agency also doesn't have to follow the mediator's suggestion, they are free to reject the suggestion and refund either a different amount or nothing at all.
With hourly contracts, you can dispute the previous week's hours (only), on the basis of whether the hours have been logged correctly or not. Quality of work and deadlines are not valid grounds for disputing time on hourly contracts.
That was clearly explained to you in the dispute and the mediation.
That means, whatever the agency delivers to me I should accept? without any argument and I should get happy what they deliver to me? even if it's not worth that money and useless things.
if you check the contract and timeline, there are specific deliverables mentioned, if we don't want to get anything done hire that agency, why I am paying money for their time? does it make sense to you?
the end of deliverable is complete proper working apps, and also, I came to Upwork wants to things done for us, not doing philanthropy to any of the agency. any of clients are the same, whether they hire freelance and agency based on hourly (based on agency request) or fixed cost. every client comes to Upwork to find an honest, agency or freelancer to complete some of the work for their business operations.
we don't have the duty to pay for money one some else time, we pay money for work that has to be done, and we can keep operating our business, stay on this platform as our business growth hire more agencies or freelance to work with.
as I said again, non of the clients here on Upwork is a philanthropist. we hire people not only based on their skill set, also on mutual trust.
remember this case is not only about hourly or fix contract issues, it's about mutual trust and how you treat people around your business. not only focusing on getting money, delivering incomplete, useless things to the clients.
if every agency or freelance works on this platform in this manner as you mentioned, what will gonna happen?
if your a freelancer, if you get clients' money whether you work on hourly or fix cost, not delivering the project on time without any issues, how are you gonna have good sleep at night?
is that money that you took from clients, God will forgive you for that?
where is the dignity of the people, how does worth on this platform ?
if everyone thinks like you, how are we gonna hire an agency or freelancer on many bigger-scale projects on this platform?
I am continuously losing my hope to work with more freelancers or agencies on this platform, each time when I read such explanations.
Nobody "took $6000" from you.
As a client, you paid $6000 to an agency to work on your behalf. This was an hourly contract. You paid them for their time, not for a specific deliverable.
Every segment of time that they logged was one that you were given an opportunity to review and dispute. You were continually provided with files and source code. You could pause or stop the contract at any time.
I am sorry if you are currently feeling disappointed, but based on your own description of events, I don't see any basis for receiving money back.
Refund thinking hurts clients. You would save money and time if you proactively decided that you will never get money back from freelancers. But instead do this: Moniter the work being submitted by all freelancers. Continue working only with freelancers providing you with the most value. End the contracts with underperforming freelancers.
You referred to the work that the freelancer/agency provided you with as "useless code." That is your phrase. Not mine. And note theirs. But it is your decision whether or not to use the source code or not. All source code is useless if the owner does not want to use it. Instead of labeling it useless, you could instead remember that you approved all of this work as it was performed. I believe that this source code is very useful. You can save considerable time and money by using it and moving forward.
Whether or not you do that is your choice. Upwork can not make that choice for you.
The proper way to develop a project of this size and scope is to hire multiple freelancers (NOT just one agency) to work on the various parts, continuously acquiring those parts and testing them, continuously building up the app until it does all that you want it to. You can NOT consider the project in an "all or nothing" way.
You need to look at what you have now, and continue building on that success, testing, fixing issues, adding more functionality, etc. That is how it works for everyone, whether using Upwork or not.
Does that mean I paid for 6000$ nothing, with a bunch of useless code, incomplete projects?
you're also the freelancer, when you agreed with the client, what you promised to provide gaining the client's trust then started the contract, and in each, every day, work if the clients asking you about the progress, you gave the same answer, again and again, but at the end, you deliver something, which I not clients expected, are feel comfortable to take the money also? based on your explanations, you will take the money whatever it takes, not providing clients proper work.
how are you going to sleep at night if you took such money from any of your clients, when they trusting on your review and your skills, giving you the jobs?
You did not pay $6000 for nothing.
You paid $6000 for all of the work that the freelancer did.
The code is not useless.
You approved all of this work.
You may choose to use it. Or you may choose to not use it.
That is your choice. You own all of the source code. Only you can decide whether or not to use it.
But you don't get to receive money from Upwork or freelancers because you decide to not use the source code that has been provided to you. That is not how this system works. That is not how hiring people works.
I advise you to hire additional freelancers to work on this project to help you finish it, using the tremendous amount of thought and design and programming that has already gone into this project.
And keep in mind that it is not the responsibility of any individual freelancer to make sure your project is completed. It is not Upwork's responsibility. It is the project manager's responsibility. If you did not hire an independent project manager, then you made a mistake. You should hire one.
If you did not hire an independent project manager, then it means it is your responsibility as the project owner to act as project manager. But you have not done so. So essentially you left those duties to the lead developer. But only 20% of lead developers are able to serve as project manager. The one you hired is NOT able to serve as project manager.
So ultimately, if you feel that this project is not successful right now, it is for two main reasons:
- you didn't hire an independent project manager
- you didn't act as project manager yourself
You can continue on to successful completion of this project IF YOU WANT TO. But you will need to ask some questions about how to do so, if you don't yet understand what you need to do.
We are here to help. But only if you want our help.
re: "Now I have to work with another tech company to develop new apps within the next 2 months, and it cost me only 3500$, with React Native languages."
You already know that it IS possible to successfully create new apps. A big mistake you made with the project you paid $6000 for was only trying out one technology, and only hiring one freelancer/agency. You can save time and money as a client by trying out multiple freelancers and techniques, and continu To use the ones that provide you with the most value.
If you have found React Native languages or Ionic or anything else to be particularly successful for you, then you could hire freelancers proficient in such to use the work and ideas developed for your project, putting those into a project developed using React Native languages or Ionic framework or whatever.
Just keep in mind that this doesn't mean React Native or Ionic framework are the only possible route to successfully creating this project. The choice of freelancers and the management of the project are also important factors.
You're right, I made mistake when I choosing the agency to work with.
Thanks for your good points and advice, and I will do my best to keep up the projects in a better way.
I wish you well.
Don't try to choose "one perfect" agency.
Hire multiple different freelancers, evaluate their work. Make sure they show you and demonstrate their work.
Quickly stop working with the ones who do no work, or low quality work, or who are too expensive. Keep working with the ones who provide the most value.
this is why I posted in the Upwork community, I knew there will be kind and honest people who can point out my mistake, and weaknesses on this project, that can be really valuable for me.
since I reduce the time limit on this project, I got such feelings something was wrong in somewhere, or at some point, also lack of experience can't find any good solutions (at that time this project, based on their explanations, seems like will be done very soon in a proper way), then I was still a choice to trust on them to wait for something good happen to me, but I am ending up here.
Reall appreciate your valuable advice Preston H
We had to edit your forum posts as our Community Guidelines prohibit posting email content, chat transcripts or other private communication as well as including names of persons or companies (or other identifying information) in an accusation of misconduct, incompetence or other wrongdoing.
We understand your frustration but we ask all users to respect Community Guidelines.
We have escalated your cases to the team and they'll continue assisting you with it directly according to our processes.
Thank you for your patience,
I am an unlucky person, the only thing valuable for me is, that I spent 6000$ to gain a great lesson on this platform.
I am wishing, all of the clients, not facing such issues as mine.