Feb 7, 2019 02:10:46 PM by Joseph C
How do you feel about a Job Post that is seeking professionaly licensed Freelancers to allow use of their names and credentials attched to an article written by Job Poster ghost writer?
Feb 7, 2019 02:37:35 PM by Joseph C
I had Flagged the Job as "inappropriate for Upwork", got the canned response, but the Job Post is still alive.
Feb 7, 2019 03:20:48 PM by Tonya P
The client wants to do the writing and just use the freelancer's name?
Feb 7, 2019 03:55:45 PM by Joseph C
Tonya,
Yes. The client (ghostwriter) is to write all the articles and attribute these articles to a licensed xxxxxx
who would review and approve the article prior to publishing on the client's web site.
Feb 7, 2019 04:06:03 PM by Wendy C
Fishy. Dicey. Probably not outside of ToS.
FWIW -
1. 'Name' being used has zero control over content. Person might actually approve a piece of content only to find out it has been converted to porn on some nefarious site.
2. Anyone agreeing to this is out of his/her mind.
Feb 7, 2019 04:22:38 PM by Joseph C
May be within TOS but most likely not within the Professional Ethics of the licensed profession.
(This is a "Featured Job", no less)
Feb 7, 2019 07:23:51 PM Edited Feb 7, 2019 07:24:51 PM by Preston H
If a job posting violates your personal ethics or beliefs, or if it violates the ethics of a specific licensed profession that you belong to, but is not a violation of Upwork TOS, then you should NOT apply to the job.
But there are no grounds for flagging the job or reporting it.
Feb 7, 2019 07:30:07 PM Edited Feb 7, 2019 07:32:03 PM by Preston H
Reminds me of when I watched William Shatner appearing on a late night show with a popular host (such as Carson, Letterman, etc.). The host brought out a new novel that Shatner had written, and asked him about it. Shatner had no idea how to answer any of the questions. He hadn't actually written it and I don't think he had ever read it, either.
The host and guest had a good laugh about this.
Feb 7, 2019 07:50:41 PM by Joseph C
From Upwork TOS:
"Seeking, offering, promoting, or endorsing and services, content, or activities that:
Feb 7, 2019 08:17:44 PM by Tonya P
CS wouldn't be able to figure that connection out on their own, especially if they don't understand the guidelines for the particular profession. You might have better luck if you spelled it out for them but you have to weigh the cost of the effort against the likelihood of success.
Feb 7, 2019 08:34:48 PM by Joseph C
Based upon prior experience, not worth the effort.
Feb 8, 2019 07:03:52 AM by Pat M
IMO Upwork should pull the job post. Since you began the thread, hopefully a Mod will come along to assist. As you know, oftentimes the Mods are of FAR greater assistance than many; not all, of the Customer Service Reps.
Feb 8, 2019 07:51:09 AM by Joseph C
Pat,
That was my original intent in posting.
Particularly, now that I see most of your responses have been in line with my reaction to this Job Post.
Feb 8, 2019 10:04:43 AM by Bojan S
Hi Joseph,
Thank you for providing additional information about this job post. I'll escalate your report to the correct team for further investigation and will take action as per our internal processes.
Thank you!
Feb 8, 2019 12:02:58 PM by Wendy C
Joseph, if it isn't too much of a hassle, let us know what the final determination is. Whomever suggested getting a mod involved gets a TU from me. This is far beyond the scope of CS expected knowledge.
Feb 8, 2019 12:15:16 PM Edited Feb 8, 2019 12:21:12 PM by Preston H
Joseph:
Did the job posting you say mention anything about creating false content?
There is a difference between ghost writing and false content.
Ron Goulart is the writer of the TekWar novels, published by Putnam. His name does not appear on these novels as the author. The "author" is William Shatner.
This is a common practice. The name sof well-known individuals are often used as authors of books and articles, even though they did not actually do the writing. This is NOT a violation of Upwork ToS.
Nor would it be a violation of Upwork ToS if we were talking about ghost-written news articles or informational articles.
Upwork's proscription against writing hoax news articles is not a prohibition of ghost-writing.
Feb 8, 2019 12:20:28 PM Edited Feb 8, 2019 12:21:47 PM by Wendy C
Preston, unless I'm mistaken what Joseph was asking was the legitimacy of allowing a writer's name to be attached to the articles. Please see my comment on page 1 for what I believe are very legit concerns. And why I'm not sure of the ToS status. I am very convinced of the lack of professional ethics and standards however.
Feb 8, 2019 12:25:14 PM Edited Feb 8, 2019 08:09:53 PM by Preston H
re: "And why I'm not sure of the ToS status"
I have no comment on the morality or ethics of this. Or on whether this violates the standards of any particular professional group.
I'm just pointing out that there is nothing in Upwork ToS that prohibits this.
Joseph referenced a prohibition against creating "hoax news" or similar "false content." But that has nothing to do with whose name is on the piece.
I haven't seen the job posting that Joseph is referring to. I don't know anything about it.
But if what Joseph is objecting to is ghost-writing, then what I would say is simply:
Upwork does not prohibit ghost-writing
or reverse ghost-writing
Feb 8, 2019 01:53:02 PM by Joseph C
Preston,
One more observation.
The Job Poster is seeking 10 Freelancers.
Feb 8, 2019 04:00:16 PM by Joseph C
Preston,
Usually when I read your postings, I am in total agreement with you.
But not on this. As I on copied on this thread earlier, earlier, the TOS states:
"regard the creation, publication, distribution of “fake news”, “hoax news” or similar false content purposefully intended to mislead readers for financial or other gain;"
Asking for a CPA to be paid for just letting the Job Poster use his name and CPA deisgnation for articles not written by the CPA is, IMO, "content purposefully intended to mislead readers for financial or other gain. The Job Poster is ghost writing articles directed to other CPAs, purportedly authored by a CPA, and the Job Poster expects to get a financial gain in doing so.
I believe it is clearly and absolutely prohibited by the UW TOS.
However, as you may have observed, at his request, I PM'd the Job link to the Mod and it is being looked at again and followed up. I am content with that.
Joe
Feb 8, 2019 01:47:13 PM by Joseph C
Hi Preston,
My issue is that the ghost writer clearly wants to masquerade as a properly licenced CPA . I tried to avoid quoting from the Job listing but, maybe, this won't be deleted:
From the Job Post:
"This is where you come in. I need to attribute these articles to licensed CPA's. You would be reviewing and approving the articles, prior to publishing on our site."
The Job also requires that only Licensed CPAs may apply.
At least to me, that is very different from a writer of a novel showing the author as a "famous" person. I don't for sure, but it seems like every James Patterson novel "authored" in the last several years was not actually written by him.
As I see it, this Job Poster is inviting CPA freelancers to commit fraud.
Joe
Feb 8, 2019 02:14:55 PM by Wendy C
Joseph, not only is the request borderline legal (IMHO) but - and apparently more important in this venue - it is against ToS. This is misrepresentation - to the max.
Feb 8, 2019 08:47:11 PM Edited Feb 8, 2019 08:48:40 PM by Douglas Michael M
I don't think this is an attempt to commit fraud. I think a freelancer is attempting to push product. This is, as I read it, a more sophisticated version of the misguided use of job posts to say "hire me."
In this case the ghostwriter, for their own reasons, proposes being the buyer rather than the seller. While the monetary relationship is reversed, the ethics are not dissimilar from those of, say, a certified CPA who wants content written that will burnish their reputation or win them business: the ghostwriter does the actual writing work, the nominal author checks the content, attaches their name, and reaps the benefit.
Once the work is done and all parties are satisfied with it, the nominal author has a piece to use, provided the actual author turns over the rights to it, overriding the default ownership contract. If not, the nominal author is at a disadvantage, since their name and purported content can be broadcast across the Internet without their input or control.
If the ownership is not reversed to fit the standard ghostwriting model, it's rather a can of worms, even if neither the ethics of ghostwriting nor ToS has been violated. Reputational value accrues to the actual author, who is presumably trying to build a portfolio. Reputational value might or might not accrue to the nominal author, depending on where, when, and how the actual author decides to publish.
Feb 8, 2019 09:45:31 PM Edited Feb 8, 2019 09:48:10 PM by Joseph C
Douiglas Michael,
It is clear that in the case of this Job Posting, there is no intent whatsoever that the actual author (ghostwriter, who is not a CPA) turns over rights to the nominal author (the CPA).
If the CPA did receive the ownership rights and control over where and how the article is published, what accompanying articles are in the publication and what fee would be charged to the readers, I would not have an issue with this Job Post.
But that is not the case.
An bit of a stretched analogy that I see is like a MD signing a prescription, without knowing anything about the patient, who receives the Rx drugs but not from an MD.
I continue to believe this Post is fraudulent to the reader of the article, illegal, unethical and probably would be outside of the ToS of reputable publishers if they were aware of the scheme, as Upwork is.
Joe