Jan 20, 2020 06:48:14 PM by Brylle S
Hello,
I'm not really new to Upwork but It's my first time to actually do jobs other than my first full-time job for 4 years. It's my first time doing a fix-priced job.
The contract got originally 2 milestones. The 1st milestone is done way before due date and paid. The 2nd milestone is also done way before due date and is currently in escrow.
Then we agreed on another task which I thought would be in another contract but the client added it as a 3rd milestone. This is also now done way before due date which is currently not in escrow.
It currently shows that the allotted budget is full as agreed. I have submitted request for the 2nd milestone's payment before I worked the 3rd one but he said that he'll fund it when the 3rd milestone is done, which is now done.
And now, we're discussing for another task.
By the way, my estimates for job completion were appropriate but the client had them extended for around 4 days.
What are the odds of my payment security? Should I wait for the due date before asking?
Solved! Go to Solution.
Jan 20, 2020 07:50:16 PM Edited Jan 20, 2020 07:53:28 PM by Preston H
Due dates in fixed-price contracts are not actually used by Upwork for anything. So it really doesn't matter.
If you finish a task, submit it.
But only if it has been funded.
It sounds like you are wondering if submitting early would be a bad thing. Of course not.
The due date does not matter. The budget does not matter. The amount of pay that was promised does not matter.
What matters is how much is funded in escrow.
If you do work for a milestone that has not been funded, Upwork will not help you get that money.
Jan 20, 2020 07:50:16 PM Edited Jan 20, 2020 07:53:28 PM by Preston H
Due dates in fixed-price contracts are not actually used by Upwork for anything. So it really doesn't matter.
If you finish a task, submit it.
But only if it has been funded.
It sounds like you are wondering if submitting early would be a bad thing. Of course not.
The due date does not matter. The budget does not matter. The amount of pay that was promised does not matter.
What matters is how much is funded in escrow.
If you do work for a milestone that has not been funded, Upwork will not help you get that money.
Jan 20, 2020 08:02:45 PM by Brylle S
Jan 21, 2020 12:27:23 AM by Praveen R
Hi Preston,
I would like you to take a look at my most recent experience on upwork most probably this is the worst experiene of my life as well. Let me explain you the whole scenario:
There's a client who wants the bitcoin( BTC ) from me and I was ready to provide him since I had access to it, the job was live on upwork platform so I was assured that it was following all guidelines and that's why I've ask the client for his btc address on upwork chat box and he have provided it to me.
Afterwards when I accepted his contract, I've send the btc to the same btc address that was provided by the client and while submitting the work for each milestone, I've also clearly mentioned all the terms like I'm sending this much amount of btc to this particular client's btc address ( 1CAqKqqJivyb3jUWE25gcbz6dHA53L5NwE ),
transaction history of the same, amount of btc etc and the payement was released by the client for each milestone. So I was confident enough to proceed with the next milestone but the thing is
After 2-3 Days, his funds were returned to him and upwork customer support states “We are sorry to have to take this step, but this matter is a result of an issue with your client’s billing method. Please contact your client for more information"
and the Upwork support team says that This reversal (chargeback) is a result of your client contacting their bank and asking them to reverse the payment for the following transactions.
and also stated that We have carefully reviewed your work activity and determined that the work billed does not qualify for Upwork Payment Protection.
But I never get a single indication from Upwork platform that this deal does not qualify for Upwork Payment Protection
Please help me out and tell me what I'm suppose to do
Jan 21, 2020 01:32:12 AM Edited Jan 21, 2020 01:34:00 AM by Petra R
Praveen wrote:There's a client who wants the bitcoin( BTC ) from me and I was ready to provide him since I had access to it,
That should have been the point where you should have laughed out loud and walked away.... Think about it logically... Why in the world would a real, genuine client pay you, pay the extra for the service fee etc to buy bitcoin when they could simply buy them themselves???
It looks like the "client" was a scammer whom you helped laundering money with a stolen or hacked credit card(s) or PayPal account.
If that was the case, the funds were not reversed to your "client". The funds were returned to the rightful owner of the payment method.
Praveen wrote:
Please help me out and tell me what I'm suppose to do
Not much you can do.
Jan 21, 2020 02:01:05 AM by Praveen R
Thanks for your reply Petra,
Let's say if I've done another legit job to the same client then who's responsbile for my money?
and if the client was a scammer then how he was able to verified his payment method on Upwork?
and how do I rectify a scammer on upwork?
Jan 21, 2020 02:21:59 AM by Petra R
Praveen R wrote:Let's say if I've done another legit job to the same client then who's responsbile for my money?
Well, this job clearly wasn't legit... How could you not know that no good would ever come of that? It is so obvious.
Praveen R wrote:Let's say if I've done another legit job to the same client then who's responsbile for my money?
Generally you.
If a chargeback can not be successfully defended (which is impossible in cases of fraudulent use of a payment method) you are unlikely to see the money again.
Praveen R wrote:
and if the client was a scammer then how he was able to verified his payment method on Upwork?
If the client was a scammer and had hacked the payment method, they were able to verify.
How much money have you lost?
Jan 21, 2020 05:15:56 AM Edited Jan 21, 2020 05:41:52 AM by Goran V
I've lost around $1k and most disgusting thing is this, the reply I got from the upwork team which says:
**Edited for Community Guidelines**
So I also need to bare the upwork fee as well for the job which I didn't get paid.
I've done nothing wrong and that's why I was in constant touch with the upwork team unlike my client who's no more active on this platform. He's a scammer and done the scam on upwork.
My only concern is that, I never get a single indication from upwork team that this deal does not qualify for Upwork Payment Protection. So how would I know that through this contract i won't get paid?
the job was live on your platform so I was assured that it was following all guidelines and that's why I've picket it up and to avoid any dispute regarding my payment, I've asked the client for his bitcoin address on upwork chat box and he have provided it to me and I've send the btc to the same address and I've attached the screenshot as well.
Jan 21, 2020 05:43:09 AM by Goran V
Hi Praveen,
I understand your frustration with this and I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had. If you have any additional questions feel free to post them on your ticket and our team will assist you further as soon as possible.
I can also recommend checking out this Post for more tips on how to avoid questionable jobs. Thank you.
Jan 21, 2020 10:54:51 PM by Praveen R
HI Goran,
Thanks for your understading and yes, I'm active on my ticket and the upwork team is heling me out now.
Jan 21, 2020 06:00:19 AM by Petra R
Praveen R wrote:I've lost around $1k
Ouch. I am really sorry, that stings.
But you were an active participant in illegal activities. You helped turn stolen funds into cash.
You also violated Upwork policies by sending money to the criminal.
The loss of the money is brutal, but at least you are not prosecuted for fraud and haven't been suspended from Upwork for what you have done.
Jan 21, 2020 06:11:38 AM by Preston H
I am a strong supporter of modern and flexible currency models, including Bitcoin.
But Bitcoin is a highly speculative and risky technology/currency. This is true whether one is getting involved with it on Upwork, or anywhere else.
I am very sorry to hear about a loss of $1k.
For future reference, it would be good if this freelancer - and anyone else reading this - understand that activity involving Bitcoin is unlikely to be "protected" on Upwork, or anywhere else. Such activity may also violate Upwork TOS.
Generally speaking, I think freelancers should feel safe with jobs that involve writing about Bitcoin, providing consulting services, or doing programming tasks.
But anything involving using your own money, accounts or Bitcoin could very well be a violation of Upwork TOS and/or a scam and/or very risky.
Jan 21, 2020 07:26:26 AM by Richard W
The fact that the job involved Bitcoin (or any currency) is not the central issue here. Any time there is a successful chargeback on the "client's" payment method with a fixed-price job, it's the freelancer who is on the hook for the loss. This is true whether the chargeback is due to the client's use of a stolen credit card or the client asks his bank to issue a chargeback on his own card (and the bank agrees).
In the usual case you might say that the freelancer only loses his time, not his money. But you could equally say that he's lost the money he was entitled to for the work he's done.
In this case the freelancer has lost his money in a more direct sense. The money came out of his own pocket. It wasn't "just" potential money that he was entitled to. But it's equally a loss in both cases.
The point to remember (and I think Upwork doesn't make this clear enough upfront) is that fixed-price protection is limited, and doesn't protect you against chargebacks.
Jan 21, 2020 08:50:50 AM Edited Jan 21, 2020 08:53:44 AM by Will L
Richard,
You are wrong to make the blanket statement, "Any time there is a successful chargeback on the "client's" payment method with a fixed-price job, it's the freelancer who is on the hook for the loss. This is true whether the chargeback is due to the client's use of a stolen credit card or the client asks his bank to issue a chargeback on his own card (and the bank agrees)."
This idea was discussed in detail on this thread:
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Fixed-Price-contract-hold/td-p/684960
In any case, Upwork clearly is not a money exchange provider - freelancers and clients should not be sending or receiving funds (or exchanging one currency for another?!?!) in any way that involves Upwork. That is how money gets laundered by crooks and no legitimate financial intermediary (such as Upwork) wants any part of its payment system involved in such transactions.
It is sad that freelancers and clients are taken in by this sort of fraud, but Upwork cannot protect its users if they make no effort to protect themselves.
Jan 21, 2020 01:14:11 PM by Petra R
Will L wrote:
This idea was discussed in detail on this thread:
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Fixed-Price-contract-hold/td-p/684960
It wasn't. The thread was about a contract with an already approved milestone where the contract was subsequently put on hold. It had nothing to do with any chargeback. The money was in Pending at the time and then paid out.
The thread was subsequently hijacked with posts about chargebacks when there was no sign of any chargeback and when chargebacks had nothing whatsoever to do with the OPs situation in any way, shape, or form, at all.
Jan 21, 2020 07:47:51 AM Edited Jan 21, 2020 07:52:58 AM by Petra R
Preston wrote:I am a strong supporter of modern and flexible currency models, including Bitcoin.
But Bitcoin is a highly speculative and risky technology/currency.
This would have been just as much of a nightmare had the fraudster asked him to send the money via Western Union or Moneygram or in an envelope containing cash. Sending money to clients is plain nuts.
Richard wrote:Any time there is a successful chargeback on the "client's" payment method with a fixed-price job, it's the freelancer who is on the hook for the loss. This is true whether the chargeback is due to the client's use of a stolen credit card or the client asks his bank to issue a chargeback on his own card (and the bank agrees).
Well, not quite. In cases where Upwork manage to successfully defend the chargeback (remember the guy whose chargebacks (2 of them) for over 4k were successfully defended?), the freelancer is no longer on the hook. The difference between a fraudulent use case and a chargeback where the client is the cardholder or owner of the payment method is that fraudulent use chargebacks can't be defended.
Jan 21, 2020 10:52:48 PM by Praveen R
How can a criminal post a job on Upwork moreover, his payment was also verified by the Upwork. So how would I know that he's a crminal?
and the job was live for 2 days and then I've accepted the offer and done the entire chat on upwork chat box and I never get a single red flag from the Upwork that don't respons to this client, he's a crmina neither like this : do it any your own risk, we are no more responsible for funds you'll be getting from him.
Also I would like to inform you that, after this job completion the same Crminal post another job with his another Id and you won't believe that he has funded $600 to the upwork account and created the milestone for me but later on it accounts says that the payment method was not verified that's why I didn't picked that job.
and Petra, I respect your opinion and time on this matter but to be very honest your reply will clearly guide anyone who wants to do a fraud on upwork. They just need a stolen or hacked credit card(s) or PayPal account. A freelancer on upwork will never gets his money and the The funds were returned to the rightful owner of the payment method once the client chargeback his money.
So upwork support team need to raise their bar and start giving the red signals on any illegal jobs posted on thier platform so that a newbie freelancer won't get scammed. And rather then prosecuting and suspended a legit freelancer accounts, they need to do the same with the scammers.
User | Count |
---|---|
533 | |
474 | |
464 | |
331 | |
282 |