Problems With a Client

[96c79f9d]

I have been a member of upwork for over 2 years now and I have multiple clients who order work from me regularly and love my work. I am a writer. Occasionally, when I take on a new client, it takes a few revisions to get exactly what they want. I know this. But I have recently taken on a client that I don't know how to deal with.

(Now this is partly my fault, as I didn't read her reviews before I started, but everyone says she is a nightmare to deal)

First of all, she sent me a bunch of information for writing an article. I did the research, finished the article, and felt like I did a decent job.

Then she comes back and says the article is terrible. She can't accept it unless I fix it.

I ask what I should fix and she says

"You know what you should fix" then "If you can't fix it I can pay you half and we can close the contract"

So I am at a loss because it seems like she wants work for half the price. I tell her no, that I'll fix it because I know there is a learning curve with clients. I revisit the article a second time and basically rewrite it.

She comes back again and says it's horrible

She says I need to fix it or take half pay.

I tell her I will fix it if only she would tell me what it is she needs fixed.

She then asks if I work for similar websites (which I do) and I say yes. Then she says "then you know why this is unacceptable"

So I begin the 3rd revision, and I ask if there are specific things she wants IN or OUT of the article. and she belittles me saying I should know what goes in the article.

At this point, I don't know if I can continue. I've done the work (3 times now) and I've been on Upwork long enough to know my work is good. I think she is just trying to get my work for half price. Is there a way for me to still get paid the full amount and close the contract? I'm just done at this point but I want the full amount I am owed since I did the article 3x. I also would like to be able to leave a review because this client is terrible and no one else should work for her.

Screenshots of the conversation attached.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[pgiambalvo]

I would've taken 1/2 as soon as she offered it. I've actually just cancelled contracts with people like this and received nothing rather than have to deal with them.

[96c79f9d]

Peter, you're so right but now I've re-written it 4 times and I feel I'm entitled to the full amount. 🙈

[pgiambalvo]

I think you're entiltled to the full amount, too. I guess it's just a matter of how much time and effort you want to spend trying to get it.

[wlyonsatl]

If you know you did the work and have made revisions in good faith, insist on getting paid in full.

If your concern is not allowing your JSS to be dinged by this nightmare client and she has been consistently negative in her feedback for many of her freelancers, Upwork says it omits feedback from certain such clients' from the calculation of freelancers' Job Success Scores. Even if Upwork knows there is a problem with certain client's unjust behavior, that behavior is not egregious enough for the client to be banned from the platform.

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068358-Job-Success-Score

"We understand that some projects have bad outcomes because the client is difficult to work with. So we track freelancer feedback of clients and flag those clients with a history of poor collaboration. If one of your clients has been flagged (or has been suspended for Terms of Service violations), then the client's feedback will not count against your score."

Unfortunately, freelancers have no way of knowing if this exclusion applies to any particular client.

Leave honest feedback when the project is closed. You will be allowed to respond to any feedback she leaves you. Just keep it professional and fact-based. (You have 14 days to respond if she closes the project. If you close the project, write a draft of your feedback and then before you close the project wait a few days to review it, or have someone else review it, to be sure it's your best effort and leaves you in the best light for potential new clients.)

Your feedback will contribute to whether this client enters or stays in JSS purgatory.

Good luck!

[96c79f9d]

Thanks Will, I just opened a claim with upwork to try and be paid the full amount.

[pgiambalvo]

Hope you get it and please keep us updated.

[d_samuel_udokpok]

Just like what Peter said, it was me,  I'll probably take half and close the contract. I've actually worked for a client for a job of $30/hr and I've for 5hrs. Then the client' returned and condemned my entire work. I was devastated, any attempt to explain to the client that what he has in mind is not how the problem should be solved proved futile. To cut this story short, I had a headache that very day, I just went ahead and cancel the contract, canceled the entire tracking hours. Such perilous clients are very difficult to work with. 

[96c79f9d]

David, I've learned my lesson. If a job seems to be too good to be true it is. And from now on I am looking at client reviews before I apply for any job. I'm not cancelling it just yet however, I'm gonna fight a little longer for payment.

[d_samuel_udokpok]

It's totally okay to fight for your right. I totally understand. Some clients ain't worth going thru the headache 

[roberty1y]

I disagree with the posters who say you should have settled for half payment. Don't belittle yourself or your work. 

I think you should just let the matter rest there, let her take it or leave it. Don't contact her again, because she has nothing constuctive to say - she refuses to tell you what's wrong with your work. She may not leave any feedback. She doesn't have to if she doesn't close the contract. If you close the contract, don't do so for a while, maybe a couple of months, so she'll be less likely to return and give feedback.

Is it a high priced job? The effect of bad feedback on job success score depends on the ratio of the fee to your overall earnings so far.

[pgiambalvo]

1/2 is better than nothing. If the client gets miffed, they might request a full refund, and Upwork will give it to them. Then Hope will have to fight even harder to get anything at all.

[melaniekhenson]

That's ridiculous...she got three different versions of an article for three different websites if she wants, for the half-price of just one. (That is, if you agree to all of this.)

You should not have done any revisions without finding out specifically what to revise. I'm not wagging a finger; I think you already know this. I'm just confirming it.

My take (you don't have to listen to me, this is just my POV): Submit the project as completed. I don't know whether you have TR status and the perk to remove feedback, but either way, it's time to shut this project down.

I don't normally have this attitude about clients; I appreciate every client I've had. But when I hear things like this, it seems pretty obvious what the M.O. is. She threatens a freelancer that the work was "terrible" and demands half-price, and the scared freelancer just does it in hopes that he or she won't get dinged on JSS that way. You say she already has reviews that she is very hard to work with, or I wouldn't jump to that even with the background you gave. But it seems pretty obvious.

At this point she is angry because you didn't back down (she had no idea what you were supposed to change, as you saw by her response) so you're likely to get a poor score anyway. It stinks but I can't see why you should not only deliver three articles for the fee of half of one, but also take the JSS ding. You did the work *the way she told you to* with no guidance on how to "change" anything. You did the job, you get paid.

JMO.

[96c79f9d]

Melanie,

I agree with you. I have never met a client I didn't like or didn't respect. But this client is a whole different breed. the minute she replied to me I knew something was off. Most new clients when you do the first article for them are like "great first attempt but this isn't quite what we wanted" she literally said "you need to go back and fix many things in the article, it is not written in a professional manner" then I asked what  is not professional and she said " if you cannot deliver, I can just end the contract now and submit a partial payment." Total red flag. (I copied and pasted these from chat by the way)

THAT'S when I read the reviews because I wanted to see if it was just me, but no, everyone says that's how working for her goes. She has had over 50 freelancers try this job, most don't last longer than 1 article max. This is clearly an issue with her, not with me, which is why I feel I am entitled to full payment.

And don't worry I've had a client I didn't agree with before, and I DID take half payment. But it was because I truly could not meet his expectations. For this woman I have met every expectation she laid out for me, and I deserve full payment for it.

Anyway, I contacted upwork support and they told me to keep submitting it and if she keep rejecting it they can establish a pattern and get me my money. So that's what I'm doing now. Submission #5 just came back because she claims not to like one sentence.

[tagrendy]

She's going to leave you a bad feedback anyway, do not refund or settle for half. If the money is in Escrow, don't release it until she gets tired, eventually after 14 days you'll get paid if she forgets to rerequest changes. I think Upwork should implement a limit on how many times a request can be made. Anyway, keep the contract open and funds locked in Escrow, do not budge and if she is irritating, ignore the messages.

[96c79f9d]

UPDATE:

Last night I contacted Upwork support and they said 2 things.

1. Keep submitting. If she keeps rejecting, and upwork can establish that she never intends to pay (just to keep rejecting my work) they can open a dispute to have me paid.

2. They want screenshots of the chat box about the belitting behavior if it breaks their code of conduct.

I'm not sure if #2 is true or not because while she did question my competence, she didn't use any profanity or name calling. 🤔 So going back through the chats now to decide.

[prestonhunter]

If you are submitting and the client is blocking payment by using the "Request Changes" button, then you probably need to do this:

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068528-Dispute-Non-Release-of-a-Milestone-Payment