Unfair agency advantage (400 connects boost!)

[vepa_durdiyev]

I am not complaining about boosting, but current dynamics are simply unfair and out of hand. As a freelancer, I am literally not allowed to have more than 200 connects, leading to scenarios where I can't boost even if I want to. See the screenshot below. Dear Upwork, please re-balance this.

Let's not turn this into a debate about how boosting is evil, etc., etc. I just want a fair playground. Same rules for everyone.

[vepa_durdiyev]

Job link for curious ones: **Edited for Community Guidelines**

And this is not an outlier. I have seen plenty in the +200 range.

[the-right-writer]

Boosting is here to stay. Therefore, it should be the same for everyone. There is no way to bid as much as an agency.

[vepa_durdiyev]

That is exactly my point, there is literally no way to boost +200, let alone 400.

[atreglia]

there is literally no way to boost +200, let alone 400.

A couple weeks ago I saw a post in this forum, with a screenshot, questioning a 600 bid.  The post was removed before there was an answer.

[25005175]

Well, unless they were in third place with that amount, they definitely did not fork out that many Connects in the end. The bid-too-high-early play is questionable regarding its effectiveness at suppressing interest (and thus Connects) in slot 3, but it is certainly an interesting strategy.

[tlsanders]

Why would you assume the goal is to suppress interest? If I bid high on a job it's because I'm very interested in it and I want to decrease the chances that someone will come along behind me and knock me off the list.

[the-right-writer]

I don't know if this is related, but I did see in a social media post, someone talking about driving away your competitors if you bid high enough.

[25005175]

Seems the easiest solution is to just cap the Bid amount at the lowest membership's Connects capacity.

[vepa_durdiyev]

A basic cap at 200 is not a solution either, as if I have 191 now, upwork won't purchase me more, but agencies can, so they can bid 200, while I am stuck at max 191 - the proposal amount.

[25005175]

Good point. So maybe a cap of 185?

[vepa_durdiyev]

Still, it requires a painful amount of micro-management, but ten there, repurchase 150 there, bid buy repeat. Whatever the cap is, the allowed max amount should be 2x or even 10x, or even no limit.

[the-right-writer]

Cap the job limits.

[the-right-writer]

No cap is needed, just don't let agencies outbid freelancers.

[25005175]

I don't see how that could be coded, because it is possible that the first bid will be performed by an Agency, which means there is no existing FL bid value to prevent over-bidding. The only viable, programmable solution is an across-the-board ceiling.

[the-right-writer]

I mean, limit the amount of connects to the same for both freelancer and agencies.

If someone wants to boost, there is no way to bid as much as an agency, and therefore is being treated differently. 

Upwork - answer us this. Why are agencies allowed to bid outside the freelancer range?

[25005175]

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Jeanne H wrote:

I mean, limit the amount of connects to the same for both freelancer and agencies.

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Agencies need to have more Connects, because they may be bidding on jobs for tens of freelancers. All of those proposals draw Connects from a single Agency pool.

[the-right-writer]

It would be simple enough to limit everyone to a number for boost. That is fair, An agency doesn't need to bid higher on one job.

[arunkumar60]

And i Guess the first bidder would only end up paying 209 connects and not 400.

[lysis10]

The bids are going up in my section too. 

Connects should be more expensive. Double the cost for connects and see what happens. Hopefully, the number of connects used to bid will lower, but who knows. It would be an interesting experiment.

Are you really capped as an individual at 200? I thought you can accumulate as many as you want if you buy them?

[25005175]

Nope. Documentation is pretty clear on that. Although, according to Anna T earlier, that Agency restriction cap may be much higher.

[lysis10]

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Jonathan L wrote:

Nope. Documentation is pretty clear on that. Although, according to Anna T earlier, that Agency restriction cap may be much higher.

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That's weird I always have more than 200 after rollover, so I suppose this is max for what you can buy. hmmm interesting and I assume Upwork didn't expect the boosts to be so high. I wonder if there is any way to bypass this. They def need to up that limit, but it kinda tells me they didn't expect boosting to be like this. I thought for sure people would be cheap with connects, which I think is what happened at first but it appears people have a change of heart.

[the-right-writer]

I think Upwork thought people would be cheap, too, until they realized it was an enormous revenue stream. If it reduced the number of garbage proposals and fake freelancers, I would be happy to pay more for connects,

[lysis10]

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Jeanne H wrote:

I think Upwork thought people would be cheap, too, until they realized it was an enormous revenue stream. If it reduced the number of garbage proposals and fake freelancers, I would be happy to pay more for connects,

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For a long while it wasn't much in my section, but this month has been pretty terrible. It's like it happen overnight this month. My section is ramping up to go into the 3 figures. This January is worse than 2020 January and I had a horrid January that year. I assumed it was the covid stuff. My armchair thoughts are that wagies enjoyed their cruise control 3 hour work week from home in 2021 and 2022, so we didn't have a flood. Now, with mass layoffs in tech and people are forced back to work, we got the January resolution people.

[atreglia]

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Jonathan L wrote:

Nope. Documentation is pretty clear on that. Although, according to Anna T earlier, that Agency restriction cap may be much higher.

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 Correct.  The OP on that post was asking how someone could make a 600 connect bid when the limit is 200/400.  I saw the screenshot myself and sure enough there was a 600 connect bid followed by either 300 or 400.  I was curious too, so I checked back a few hours later, couldn't find it, then searched for it and still couldn't find it.  So, I guess the post just mysteriously disappeared....imagine that. 

So, I'm commenting here because I'm still wondering, and I don't know of another way to follow.

[lysis10]

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Anna T wrote:

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Jonathan L wrote:

Nope. Documentation is pretty clear on that. Although, according to Anna T earlier, that Agency restriction cap may be much higher.

---

 Correct.  The OP on that post was asking how someone could make a 600 connect bid when the limit is 200/400.  I saw the screenshot myself and sure enough there was a 600 connect bid followed by either 300 or 400.  I was curious too, so I checked back a few hours later, couldn't find it, then searched for it and still couldn't find it.  So, I guess the post just mysteriously disappeared....imagine that. 

So, I'm commenting here because I'm still wondering, and I don't know of another way to follow.

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Buy 400 and you will get refunds from previous bids.  People have to remember that you won't be spending that much at the top.

[atreglia]

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Jennifer M wrote:

Buy 400 and you will get refunds from previous bids.  

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Thank you for that, Jennifer.   I was not aware we could exceed the limit of 200/400.

[vepa_durdiyev]

I was able to get more than 200 as a freelancer but by chance. It is the refund thing, let's say you bid 200, and you have 400 now when for some reason that 200 gets refunded you might get 600. 

[25005175]

So this is another case where the publications don't match reality. If it is really just refunds that enable a user to have more than the Connects limit, then that should be an easy fix in the code - just an additional IF condition.

[vepa_durdiyev]

Yep, you are capped at 200, and to get 200 you need to fiddle with it, if you are at 191, you can't get more, as the lowest amount you can buy is 10. Increasing the price is not solving the problem though, as long as agencies can buy more.

[williamtcooper]

Hey Vepa, what type of job were freelancers willing to pay so much? I am in Marketing and Sales and never see more than 30 connects. Have a great day!

[vepa_durdiyev]

Web developed. I posted a link but was removed.

[mayalee99]

+200 that's mad it's getting worse and worse each time I check !

[lysis10]

So, the way around the cap is to buy 200, blow 200 connects (like bid 100 on two job posts), and then buy another 200. Repeat and then your refunds will increase your total by potentially hundreds. 

So lets say I want to blow my competition out of the water with 600 bids. I go buy 200, blow 200 connects on whatever, and then buy again, and keep doing that until I got lots of connects in refunds. Very doable.

[kochubei_valeria · Accepted solution]

Hi All,

Thanks for the discussion and feedback you all have shared. I encourage you to check out this recent Product Update
as it's relevant to this topic. 

[25005175]

😱😱🤢💀

[vepa_durdiyev]

Thanks, Valeria. Not sure if this is a solution we wanted, but a solution nonetheless. Let the free market correct itself 🙃

[arunkumar60]

Several job posts here, fixed or hourly which ends up being a $5-$10 spend in total and has 50+ proposals and boosted by say 60 odd connects.

So the cumulative amount spent on Upwork connects is more than the project value.

I have also noticed another trend, too many jobs which are left open and never hired- Are people with deep pockets trying to eat up connects of Freelancers ( or atleast block it for 30 days)?

[lysis10]

oooh buddy. Here come the 4-digit connects bid. 

[tlsanders]

Maybe this will finally put an end to (or at least reduce) the "throw hundreds of proposals against the wall and cross your fingers" bidding method.