Upwork hidding freelancer's bids from clients.

[spectralua]

I wasted 16 connects 32 minutes ago to apply.

My proposal is hidden, client never saw it.

My proposal was $190, current range have no such amount.

I would like an explanation.

jobpost 

[50f7abd3]

I experienced the same thing with my last proposal. After checking on the post some hours later, I noticed that the highest bid was lower than mine for a long time. I kept refreshing and eventually saw a bid appear higher than mine.

I have always been very sceptical about whether clients actually see my bid.

[759e32fa]

Hi Mykola,

Sure. I checked on this and can confirm that the client received your proposal. Please keep in mind that clients will review the proposals that they receive carefully and look closely at the freelancers or agencies who submitted them. Some things they will consider include the freelancer or agency’s skills, experience, work history and ratings on the platform, availability, ability to meet their deadline, and budget.

Clients can take one of these actions:
 

• Contact the freelancer or agency to discuss their proposal (interview and negotiate)
• Set contract terms and, if accepted, hire the freelancer or agency
• Decline a proposal – Notify the freelancer or agency they are not interested in the proposal and why
• Archive a proposal – Hide the proposal from their list without rejecting it

When one of the two last actions is taken by clients those proposals will no longer be considered in the bid range.

Since you can still see the proposal in your "submitted proposals" section and not on archive, this means that the client did not decline your proposal and that leaves us to the conclusion that they have archived your proposal.

[yofazza]

- nevermind -

[f3cf95d1]

Get rid of the boost system. 

Go back to the old system that matched the most qualified freelancer to the job.

Don't let everyone in to the platform. 

Delete bots and scammers.

When you have somene that's posted 1,014 jobs with a 1% hire rate and $30 spent.....this person has to be removed from the system. They are CLEARLY taking advantage of freelancers on the platform. But I guarnatee you that Upwork will do NOTHING to this person.

[f3cf95d1]

Good evening, Thank you for your sound advice, but it's of little use as the proposals are not read, even when the customer receives less than 5 proposals.**Edited for community guidelines** https://www.upwork.com/nx/wm/offer/101570036 hired me. He told me I had one of the best applications in accounting (I've worked with KPMG and Deloitte). However, here are my ratios: 100% of my applications read by clients result in 100% hiring. And 91% of my proposals are not read. That's the sad fact... So you hide proposals from clients. This is very serious since it is a complete scam. I intend to alert specialist lawyers since we have created a false customer account for testing. My application was never received...

Laurent.

[a8d1dc31]

To be honest: The possibility that proposals are just archived even without being viewed is unacceptable for me. Giving a reply to the freelancer in a timely manner should be an obligation for the client (see my post "I suggest a Client Success Score").

[yofazza]

It could be some caching mechanism, although I do have a very strong feeling that this is true in some other ways.

Our proposals could be hidden, or temporarily held, including the email notification. They are not simply thrown into the 'other' folder when the algo thinks it's not the time for the proposal sender to get additional view  because client would still check this folder if there are not many proposals, right? Or they will still see them in their notification?

I experienced, when there was a job, quite specific/specialized, with fewer than 5 proposals, where I submitted mine in under 10 minutes after the job was posted. The client isn't new, and my first two lines are always clickbaits.

I waited 30 minutes, the job only have 5-10 proposals (jobs in my niche usually gets 50+ in less than 30 minutes).

I checked back after a few hours, a few people getting interviewed and someone getting the job, with no notification that my proposal was ever viewed.

[spectralua]

I also noticed where a 100% suitable client did not see me. That is why I closely monitor proposals.

It should be like this:

I made a proposal.

The Bid range amount has changed to reflect mine.

The client looked at the vacancy, the "Last viewed by client" timer was reset.

The client threw the offer into the trash (having read it or not)

The Bid range has changed taking into account.

Even the fastest client requires at least 5 seconds to do this. Also it is not a failure because some times it works as expected. Not each my proposal trashed.

Even though Annie Jane has said this not for the first time, it is impossible. I updated the offer every few seconds until the client activity (Last viewed) reset. Therefore, I am sure that the upwork either deletes the offer without showing it or immediately puts it in the trash.

I don't mind paying for the application. But I don't like that I pay money for nothing when my offer never shows up. I don't complain about abstract reasons why a client doesn't hire. I point out an obvious fraud when money is taken for a specific clear service: add my offer to the list of offers so that the client can see it.

[atreglia]

---

Mykola A wrote:

Therefore, I am sure that the upwork either deletes the offer without showing it or immediately puts it in the trash.

---

But of course, your proposal being sent straight to the trash is the most likely outcome.  Annie confirmed the client "received" your proposal, but she did not say what pile it went to.

[spectralua]

Well spotted. 😃

[vverma15]

Is this truly the case? Because my proposals are also encountering the same problems.

[yofazza]

It's confirmed that Upwork is rotating the freelancer's chances.

What discussed in this thread, is about how far Upwork "interferes" in making sure that the chances are rotated.

[calado-marco]

Ok, i was intending to respond to your previous posts, but now you got it; " Upwork is rotating the freelancer's chances".

I had this doubts a time ago, so i asked the same question. What i got back from them is something along this lines ; "we need to give more chances to newcomers so we rotate the profiles on the job offers and invites".

Firstly, if this is their current logic, all of the boost system goes down the drain....

Secondly, if they intent to promote a professional/experienced/skilled platform and keep pushing non verified freelancers; then all of their promotional/advertising stunts fall flat.

I have nothing againts new freelancers, but we have all been there and we all had to prove ourselves with our work quality. If they want to atract new clients, they need to promote professionals...

And new clients means new cash inflow and that is what a business (any business) is all about.

[yofazza]

Firstly, if this is their current logic, all of the boost system goes down the drain....

This is what prioritized by the algo:

1. The boost, but only the top 4. When someone got outboosted, it goes to "the usual place" (exact phrase the mods use):
   
   
2. The usual place is sorted by some "secretive" sub-algo to determine "best matches", where this "best match" is now prioritizing rotation among other "things that should be" if viewed from our POV such as skills, matching history, etc.

So  it's not entirely goes down the drain because you still have the top-4 chance before you can end up in the "regular" or "other" (trash) list, and also (they said) you'll get connects returned if the client doesn't see your boosted proposal.

Secondly, if they intent to promote a professional/experienced/skilled platform and keep pushing non verified freelancers; then all of their promotional/advertising stunts fall flat.

This is what makes me curious. I want to see their contingency plan when a saturation point (a large portion of freelancers no longer interested in "paying" because they can't find clients, because all good clients have left as they only find disappointment here) is reached. And this is also by assuming that the current model is really unsustainable where that saturation point can be reached.

It's weird to see they don't seem to care if they lose some (types) of client. We can look into the Clients forum for that. Recent example, telling a genuine clueless client to use the fail bot again, is really a bad move. Looked like it happen because the mod is told to do that (point them the bot, don't immediately create them tickets to the scarcy human support).

There are also complains about raised fee, increased fakes, with similar respond (they don't care about clients ~ which is weird).

[tjmisny]

If there is a rotation system, it needs to be recalibrated.

I'm one of the top (if not THE top) freelancer in my field, and my hire rate is .3% this year.  To be clear, not even half of one percent of jobs I apply to.... 

[the-right-writer]

There is supposed to be a rotation algorithm, and if it is running correctly, the top freelancers do not always have the top spot. Depending on who knows what, the searches can be very different if you search as a client, freelancer, or use different search words. Then there is the matter of paying. Paying for the available button,  searches, the "plus" program, and all the other ways to pay, can alter your appearances, according to people that have been collecting data. I don't know if Upwork uses all of the money spent in the calculations, but it is definitely not based on the JSS, income, years on the platform, or any other usual metric. I have no problem with rotation, if there seemed to be any reasoning or consistency. It seems someone likes to play with the algos, or perhaps that works as well as the scam detection and removal.

[6bfcdaf8]

I can confirm i'm seeing the pattern that Annie described in some of my proposals. And as a client i have also done the same, i look at the proposals summary in list view and quickly click archive which removes the proposal from list view. I believe some clients do that to mine too, we are just not a good match. 

[spectralua]

Do you do this every 2 seconds without even opening a vacancy? Or do you open a vacancy, for example, in 10 minutes and cleaning the list? In second case proposal should be there within that 10 min before you rejected\moved it.

In topic example Last viewed by client was "3 min ago", i applied then Last viewed by client increased to "11min ago". Then client returned, opened job post, started some interviews... After my apply within 8 minutes client was away but my proposal was never included in Bid range.

[rekasesh]

What you're saying is essentially -- proposals are getting dumped into trash file through some AI tinkering, even before the client sees it. 

If that's the case, most of us are sitting in a casino of jobs waiting for that lucky break.