How come I can't message a freelancer?

[9cd5ab57]

How come I can't message a freelancer?  I want to ask questions, but all I get is "hire or invite" a freelancer? I want to talk to them before hiring them.

Thank You

[petra_r · Accepted solution]

---

@Kane S wrote:

How come I can't message a freelancer?  I want to ask questions, but all I get is "hire or invite" a freelancer? I want to talk to them before hiring them.

---

 That is what "Invite" is there for. It is without obligation!

[222c8b1a]

Yes but what if you just have an idea for a job that they might suit but you don't want to write the whole job ad, just want to chat with them first....I come across this problem all the time.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Amanda, 

You can also post your job privately and invite only selected freelancers to discuss more details about the project. If you need further help let me know, thank you!

[222c8b1a]

Yes I know that but that's not what i want to do...many times I have multiple ideas and I like scrolling through freelancers and when I see good ones - which is a lot - then I like to engage in a conversation with them about a broad idea - NOT an idea that I necessarily want to - or even CAN at that point - put into a specific job post....hence why a message feature is necessary - simply being able to contact a freelancer that you like and start chatting is a necessary feature i think

[petra_r]

---

@amanda o wrote:

...many times I have multiple ideas (snip) - then I like to engage in a conversation with them about a broad idea - NOT an idea that I necessarily want to - or even CAN at that point - put into a specific job post....hence why a message feature is necessary - simply being able to contact a freelancer that you like and start chatting is a necessary feature i think

---

 Apart from what everyone else has said: Time is money. I wouldn't usually be interested in "engaging in conversation about a broad idea" with a client who "has multiple ideas" but nothing tangible that will actually earn me money unless said client hires (and pays) me to provide consultancy services at my hourly rate.

In that case I'll happily chat about their ideas with the tracker on.

[469f9fe2]

---

Petra R wrote:
[...]unless said client hires (and pays) me to provide consultancy services at my hourly rate.

---

**Edited for Community Guidelines** 

I happen to work in the cosultancy industry (specialty is M&A) and what you described is most definitely not what consulting is...**Edited for Community Guidelines**. What amanda o. was talking about is part of front-end planning which ANY client should engage in with the business/freelancer before even thinking about hiring anybody to do a project with them. Front-end planning is roughly discussing whether an idea(s) is even feasible/actionable/makes sense/etc.

Consulting pertains to the formulated concept and execution phase of that idea and includes anything from giving input, to making corrections, to giving advice on how to make a better product/service/whatever. Absolutely NO consultancy firm asks for money for the former and if they do it should raise a major red flag for the client...

[prestonhunter]

re: "What amanda o. was talking about is part of front-end planning which ANY client should engage in with the business/freelancer before even thinking about hiring anybody to do a project with them. Front-end planning is roughly discussing whether an idea(s) is even feasible/actionable/makes sense/etc."

But you can ALREADY do that using Upwork.

Clients can ALREADY talk to freelancers without hiring them or paying them.

If you don't like Petra's wording or comments about getting paid to provide consulting services, that's your right.

But it should remain clear that although some freelancers may not want to spend excessive tine talking with clients before being hired, Upwork doesn't prevent such conversations, and Upwork doesn't place a time limit on such conversations.

[469f9fe2]

---

Preston H wrote:

re: "What amanda o. was talking about is part of front-end planning which ANY client should engage in with the business/freelancer before even thinking about hiring anybody to do a project with them. Front-end planning is roughly discussing whether an idea(s) is even feasible/actionable/makes sense/etc."

But you can ALREADY do that using Upwork.

Clients can ALREADY talk to freelancers without hiring them or paying them.

---

I am quite aware of that fact. My reply however was aimed specifically within the context of her comment to amanda o.

---

But it should remain clear that although some freelancers may not want to spend excessive tine talking with clients before being hired

---

My point of criticism wasn't "excessive time". I merely pointed out that her subjective definition of consultancy is factually wrong. Perhaps she is successful in demanding money for simple feasibility discussions and/or getting a clear picture about which idea that the potential client has in mind is possible to realize/is recommendable, but nobody who I know who works in the consultancy industry will demand money upfront for such a thing.

@moderators

I have no idea why the part of my comment where I said that she was being "confidently incorrect" was removed. It's not even an insult or anything.

[cde2e4ae]

I agree, I also feel that this feature is necessary.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I agree, I also feel that this feature is necessary."

As a client, I have hired 178 freelancers. I can assure you that adding. A new feature is not necessary.

I can already talk to freelancers before hiring them. This is very easy to do.

If someone thinks that a new feature needs to be added so that clients can talk to freelancers, they simply don't understand how the Upwork user interface works.

[9f4c1f2f]

Hi Goran, I have encountered a similar situation and hope you can help. I have invited a freelancer to a job, but have not heard back yet. When I wanted to re-check with the freelancer, I saw that I cannot send the freelancer a follow up. Is there any way around it? I would like to at least get one more shot as connecting with the freelancer, particularly since the budget was increased (and now matching the freelancer's price range). What can I do? Thanks a lot!
Mark

[AndreaG]

Hi Mark,

Unless the freelancer accepts your invite, you won't be able to message them regarding this job posting. However, if you'd like to discuss different terms now, you could create a new Private Job Post and invite that freelancer to it. That way they will get another invitation for your job which they can reply to if they are available.

Thanks!

[hollywerd]

Hi Goran, I would like to post a job to the certified ethical hackers but don't really know how to vette them. Is there a good way to do this? I think i've been hacked, want to do a systems forensics and log any suspicious activity before I wipe out my system and secure it for legal stuff, but don't know the first thing about vetting... you mentioned above I could post a job, but really need someone who is legit and certified to do legal documentation of hacking... what would you suggest?

[prestonhunter]

re: "I would like to post a job to the certified ethical hackers but don't really know how to vette them. Is there a good way to do this? I think i've been hacked, want to do a systems forensics and log any suspicious activity before I wipe out my system and secure it for legal stuff, but don't know the first thing about vetting... you mentioned above I could post a job, but really need someone who is legit and certified to do legal documentation of hacking... what would you suggest?"

I have personally hired about 7 different hackers on Upwork to conduct penetration testing/security reviews on servers I set up and and login systems I created. There are many freelancers on Upwork available to do this kind of work.

Unfortunately, Upwork does not "vette" or "vet" freelancers.

You asked if there is any way way to vette freelancers before posting a job.
There is no way to do that.

You may decide to post a job which is public, and any Upwork freelancer may see your posting.
Or you may post a job priviately, and only invite freelancers YOU CHOOSE to apply to your job.

What can you do using Upwork, as it exists today?
Well, Upwork doesn't vette freelancers, but you CAN use Upwork to SEARCH for freelancers who work in this area, and you can read their profiles and their reviews. You can look for freelancers who are true specialists in this area (not voiceover artists or bakers or graphic designers who also do security consultation on the side) and you can look for professionals with good reviews and track records.

You can do your own "vetting" by looking at profile pages, and also by interviewing freelancers before you hire them or give them access to your systems.

Just keep in mind that Upwork never vettes freelancers in the sense that you are referring to. Upwork has many identity verification protocols, but that is NOT the same thing as verifying that a freelancer is competent or is a certified ethical hacker.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Yes but what if you just have an idea for a job that they might suit but you don't want to write the whole job ad, just want to chat with them first...."

Then write that in a job post and send it to the freelancer as a private invite.

Don't think of it as a "job."

Honestly, a job post is NOT really a job.

It can be nothing more than an invitation to talk to somebody.

[222c8b1a]

Yes I know that but the whole point that you're missing is that that is a whole bunch of work and annoying and stupid considering how easy it could be if there was simply a MESSAGE feature!!!

[colettelewis]

---

@amanda o wrote:

Yes I know that but the whole point that you're missing is that that is a whole bunch of work and annoying and stupid considering how easy it could be if there was simply a MESSAGE feature!!!

_____________________________

I've had a couple of invitations where a client has wanted to discuss a job before hiring. One materialized, the other didn't. I have no problem with the one that didn't. Inviting does not mean either the client or the freelancer has to commit. An invitation can be a discussion. 

[prestonhunter]

Amanda: Your problem is you are too decent a person to understand why a "direct messaging" feature will never be implemented.

Upwork has millions of users, including hundreds of thousands of clients, most of whom are wonderful, professional, ethical people such as yourself.

But Upwork doesn't really restrict who can become a client. Anybody can easily sign on as a client.

There are many job posts which are bogus or fraudulent or vulgar or which otherwise break Upwork's rules. But at least Upwork can use SOME automated filtering to help flag those, and it can use its staff and the help of freelancers who see the jobs to remove such posts.

But direct messenger - without having an actual JOB to talk about - would open up unwelcome possibilities without any benefit to Upwork or its freelancers.

Here are some of the ACTUAL messages that freelancers would receive from people who are not like you:

"Hello, there, Jamie! I saw your profile. I have a job for you, but it won't be through Upwork. Email me at.... so we can talk about it, and you won't have to pay Upwork fees."

"Donald: Do you want to earn thousands of dollars a day? All you need to do is buy bitcoin for me..."

"Kristina, you look stupid in that lame hat!"

"Joshua, how did somebody from a third world heckhole like Dunlyn ever become a certified Microsoft technician?"

[By the way, these are the nicer ones... There are a lot more that I can't post here, but you get the idea.]

[richard_wein]

Hi Amanda. Bear in mind that we freelancers receive quite a lot of spammy invitations. If you want to get the attention of a good freelancer you will probably need to write enough to show them that it's worth their time to respond.

[222c8b1a]

Ohhh ok I understand what you're talking about now.  Hmm never really thought of it like that...such a shame.  I wonder if then they could implement just that feature for proven employers and not just spammers....for example I've hired at least 10 people for 10 jobs so I should have the direct message feature activated...jsut a suggestion because it would really help!

[d86e1b04]

I disagree,

I find myself using Fiverr much more than upwork just because of the lack of a message feature.

With messaging you can

1.  Negotiate Prices before hand

2.  Get a better idea if the job is best suited for a particular freelancer

3.  Hash out problems or issues before any order is initiated

Fraud is going to happen in any environment with or without messaging capability.  Fiverr, I believe, uses fraud detection software within their messaging functionality to prevent this issue.

I agree with Amanda on this and think the lack of messaging functionality is really hurting business.

[AveryO]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, Patrick. 

Before anything else, I would like to note that this is a thread from 2018, but I understand why the discussion is still relevant, and why this feature can be useful for clients. 

I would also like to share that we are curently beta-testing a new feature where Upwork Plus Clients can send direct messages to freelancers. You may read more about it here.

[0992c3b9]

Upwork should remove the screens in the help section that show you can messaage a freelancer directly after viewing their profile - without posting a job.  So onto FIVERR!

[c8dc19c3]

But I don't want to post a job, i only want to message a freelancer. Why does it say "invite and post"?

[prestonhunter]

re: "But I don't want to post a job, i only want to message a freelancer. Why does it say 'invite and post'?"

Don't worry about the precise terminology.

That is how it works.

As a client, I can send a message to any freelancer I want to.

I post a job, as a private job, and navigate to the freelancer profile page, and click Invite.

Very easy to do.

You do not actually need to hire anyone. You don't need to pay anything. As long as you are sincere about MAYBE hiring someone using that job posting, it's fine.

[btibke]

Hi. I am on the other end. I am a freelancer and was wondering if there was a way to chat with a job poster without writing a full proposal... sometimes the job is vague and I just want to ask more questions about the job, but I fear that my connects or "proposal" will just get thrown out cause I didnt give em much to look at.

[kat303]

---

@Kane S wrote:

How come I can't message a freelancer?  I want to ask questions, but all I get is "hire or invite" a freelancer? I want to talk to them before hiring them.

Thank You

---

Just something to think about. In general (and I'm not talking about you) there are a great many scammers on here who know how to beat the system. They talk to freelancers to get ideas on their job. Then with detailed information, they hire someone real cheap to implement those ideas. Many times, those ideas are the heart of the job and encompass the entire job.

It's great to talk to a freelancer about a job. Communication through actual voice is so much more effective in communicating information, questions, answers and other details then typing back and forth. It also is a way to find out if a freelancer is a good fit to work with you.

IMO, though, if a conversation will take long then 1/2 hour it would be very nice if a professional could be paid for their time and ideas. There have been posts here from freelancers saying they talked with a client (before hiring) for an hour but then they never heard back from them. That's an hour of a clients time and expertise that were given away for free. So, even though nothing may come of of this, it would be a nice gesture to set up a small "consultation" job and invite 2 or 3 freelancers.  

[84cd1f7b]

Because it's a silly website