Writing time

laneski-maureen · ‎09-25-2017

It takes me entirely too long to write articles and posts, especially if they need research. How long SHOULD it take? Or, how long does it take for you? I've only been at this a few months.

Does it get better?

miroslav84 · ‎09-25-2017

I am not a native English speaker. In my case, it takes 2 to 5 hours of work to complete a 1,000 words piece. If the client says the work is to be given to a native editor, it will take me a bit less time as I can fully concentrate on the subject matter and have only one proofread before completion, otherwise I shall read it two or three times more to make sure the style and tone is up to my expectations and capabilities..

In my mother tongue, it takes 1.5 to 2.5 hours depending on how familiar I am with the subject.

wendy_writes · ‎09-25-2017

One writer's perspective:

As a writer, do NOT take hourly jobs.

- thinking time does not contain key strokes

- research time does not contain enough key strokes to CYA

Writers need to factor these elements into the equation and then bid a fixed price that includes both plus writing skills.

As an editor - hourly jobs are fine.

As a translator - hourly jobs are fine.

There is also the aspect of 'note taking' or whatever the system calls it - and this is extraordinarily disruptive to the actual writing process.

miroslav84 · ‎09-25-2017

Agree that hourly jobs for writing are a big no-no. The only exception to that is "article spinning" which is closer to typing/data entry than to actual writing. What I want you to ask is whether charging per word is also a wrong approach in your opinion? Per word billing is often associated with deviations such as writing filler content, using frequent word-consuming phrases in place of simple expressions and adding less relevant information to the piece.

I think piece-based and project-based billing is the best solution for writing jobs, though the issue of hours spent writing is also important for planning and keeping track of our productivity.

petra_r · ‎09-25-2017

@Wendy C wrote:
One writer's perspective:
1) As a writer, do NOT take hourly jobs.
2) - thinking time does not contain key strokes
3) - research time does not contain enough key strokes to CYA

4) There is also the aspect of 'note taking' or whatever the system calls it - and this is extraordinarily disruptive to the actual writing process.

Wendy, with all due respect... You don't do hourly contracts so you are not familiar with the process, or at least not from your own experience.

1) Personal choice. Yours is not to work on an hourly basis.

2) True

3) Most people do most of their research online which usually involves keystrokes or mouseclicks.

4) How is it "extraordinarily disruptive" to enter a short work memo when you first start the tracker? Seriously? It takes seconds, once per whatever it is you're doing.

datasciencewonk · ‎09-26-2017

@Petra R wrote:
@Wendy C wrote:
One writer's perspective:
1) As a writer, do NOT take hourly jobs.
2) - thinking time does not contain key strokes
3) - research time does not contain enough key strokes to CYA

4) There is also the aspect of 'note taking' or whatever the system calls it - and this is extraordinarily disruptive to the actual writing process.
Wendy, with all due respect... You don't do hourly contracts so you are not familiar with the process, or at least not from your own experience.

1) Personal choice. Yours is not to work on an hourly basis.
2) True
3) Most people do most of their research online which usually involves keystrokes or mouseclicks.
4) How is it "extraordinarily disruptive" to enter a short work memo when you first start the tracker? Seriously? It takes seconds, once per whatever it is you're doing.

100% Agree.

And a majority of my writing contracts are hourly.

tlbp · ‎09-25-2017

@Wendy C wrote:
One writer's perspective:
As a writer, do NOT take hourly jobs.
- thinking time does not contain key strokes
- research time does not contain enough key strokes to CYA
Writers need to factor these elements into the equation and then bid a fixed price that includes both plus writing skills.
As an editor - hourly jobs are fine.
As a translator - hourly jobs are fine.

There is also the aspect of 'note taking' or whatever the system calls it - and this is extraordinarily disruptive to the actual writing process.

Agree. Unless it is a short and sweet blog entry, the process just isn't suited for hourly tracking in this writer's opinion.

reinierb · ‎09-25-2017

@Maureen L wrote:
It takes me entirely too long to write articles and posts, especially if they need research. How long SHOULD it take? Or, how long does it take for you? I've only been at this a few months.

Does it get better?

It does get better, but only after you decide to stick to the topics you know best. Ideally, you should stick to topics you can write on off the top of your head, or that require only minimal research, but still within your field of expertise.

Taking on writing jobs about things you know nothing or very little about is a sure-fire way to crash and burn.

stevekoek · ‎09-12-2019

Reinier, this might be the best advice I've seen on this board. I wish I had seen this a couple of months ago. It cost me time and money to figure it out on my own. I had to learn that I didn't HAVE to accept every job,

tlsanders · ‎09-26-2017

Maureen, don't try to find a standard. Every writer is different and every job is different. You mentioned 2,000 word articles in another post. I've written many 2,000 word articles in 75-90 minutes each. I've taken as long as 12 hours to write a 2,000 word article. I don't do hourly jobs, but when I'm pricing a fixed-price writing project I think about how long the research is likely to take, how in-depth the content is going to be, how long I anticipate it will take to write, how much my existing expertise factors in (the client doesn't get a discount because the piece will take me half the time it would take someone else if the reason it will go so quickly is that I'm already an expert in the subject matter--expertise costs more), how tight the deadline is, and the value of the piece to the client's business.

lysis10 · ‎09-27-2017

I guess it should take what it takes. I start to drag after 1000 words, but I write a lot of stuff off the top of my head so who knows how long if I didn't know the topic at all. I pass up stuff I don't know at all unless it's generalist stuff. I'm too afraid to be totally wrong and mess it up.

I charge 1 hour per 500 words unless it's a new client then I tell them 2 hours for the first 500 to account for research and I don't know if they are going to be a nightmare with revisions. That's for escrow though. With hourly, it doesn't matter.

jerryjames91 · ‎09-28-2017

My actual writing (typing) time is substantially lower compared to the time it takes to compose my thoughts and research the topic at hand. If it's something I'm familiar with, I can get through 2000 words in 70-80 minutes. On the flip side, if I'm dealing with something new - I have been known to take up to 4-5 hours for a 1000-word piece.

I don't think anyone can point to a specific amount of time you SHOULD take. Varies from project to project. But as we tackle more projects, we do start to get a better handle on estimating how much time a job will take - and quote accordingly.

reinierb · ‎09-28-2017

@Jerry J wrote:
My actual writing (typing) time is substantially lower compared to the time it takes to compose my thoughts and research the topic at hand. If it's something I'm familiar with, I can get through 2000 words in 70-80 minutes. On the flip side, if I'm dealing with something new - I have been known to take up to 4-5 hours for a 1000-word piece.

I don't think anyone can point to a specific amount of time you SHOULD take. Varies from project to project. But as we tackle more projects, we do start to get a better handle on estimating how much time a job will take - and quote accordingly.

Pity one can't quote for writer's block.

I have just spent two weeks working on a fluff piece on how to find a good mechanic. Something like this would normally take about an hour or so, but for the past two weeks, I have not been able to construct a coherent sentence, much less put together paragraphs that are not disjointed, contrived, or plain stupid.

However, I did manage a few forum comments in this time, but even that was a struggle.

jerryjames91 · ‎09-29-2017

Yeah I hate when that happens. Sitting and staring at a blank page while the cursor sneers at you with those condescending blinks....ugh. Even if I do manage to start, it'll be so incoherent that even I can't make head or tail of it

However, I seem to have found a workable solution. Whenever I feel mentally exhausted, I go to the nearest cafe with my laptop, and give it another go. Working so far 😛

ruth_bowles · ‎09-29-2017

I think, as you accumulate more experience, you will become more efficient at researching and writing. If a piece is longer than about 300 words, I'll throw together a rough outline, as part of my brainstorming researching process.

I do both hourly and fixed price jobs. I use the memos to annotate when I'm researching, which lines up with the screenshots. I have never had any complaints from clients about this. You can also edit the memos later, if you forget to change the memo note during tracking.

I wouldn't limit yourself to just fixed price jobs. Just make sure you consider your rate per word when bidding on hourly jobs. You don't want to sell yourself short. It was a little awkward for me taking my first hourly job, but I figured it out, and I am equally comfortable taking on both types of jobs.

wendy_writes · ‎09-29-2017

@ Reinier,

A huge number of my brain storms come when I'm in the shower. Hot water, shampoo and brain all seem to be interconnected.

reinierb · ‎09-29-2017

@Wendy C wrote:
@ Reinier,

A huge number of my brain storms come when I'm in the shower. Hot water, shampoo and brain all seem to be interconnected.

@ @Wendy,

You are lucky in that way. I have never been able to figure out a silver bullet that can kick start my brain when it dies. The only thing that works for me is to wait until the blockage clears, which can take anything from a few hours to a week or more. This recent episode was unusually long, but fortunately, the whole writer's block thing does not happen very often for me. When it does happen though, I just ride it out until I find I can work again.

heist · ‎10-23-2017

It gets much easier when you find your niche.

If I'm writing about health and fitness I can generate a lot of articles rapidly, due to my own personal experience and knowledge.

Ask me to write about quantum fluctuations and it would probably take me a week to construct one sentence.

e_luneborg · ‎10-23-2017

I only write about things that I know, so very little research is needed. When I'm in the mood I write about 1500 words an hour, but when I'm not in the mood...

Today my brain shut down on me after only 300 words. No re-start has worked so far.

________________________
Freelancing is a gamble - To win you need skill, luck and a strategy

luce-neidert · ‎10-25-2017

I love writing, but I love researching even more; So I couldn't expect someone to fully pay for the time I use researching. I get carried away because it's something I enjoy doing so much.

There are a few topics I could write about without research, of course, but the topics I'm thinking of are problably not that interesting to most people and I don't imagine someone would be willing to pay for me to write about them.

lysis10 · ‎10-25-2017

I charge for research.

If I'm doing something I'd rather not be doing because it's for a client, I charge. I even do what professionals do and bump an estimate by at least 10% to cover unforeseen issues. OMG craziness!

Even when I got into a dispute, I lost $150 on the contract but essentially got enough money for my time. I got $500 out of a $650 contract, so I probably made closer to $70/hour after the dispute.

A Jennifer always collects her debts.

luce-neidert · ‎10-26-2017

Well, Jenifer, I'm not there yet. Only wrote a few things as a freelancer. Everytime, I got so involved in the topic I had lots of fun doing the research, and for me, having fun is nearly as good as making money....

datasciencewonk · ‎11-04-2017

@Luce N wrote:
I love writing, but I love researching even more; So I couldn't expect someone to fully pay for the time I use researching. I get carried away because it's something I enjoy doing so much.

There are a few topics I could write about without research, of course, but the topics I'm thinking of are problably not that interesting to most people and I don't imagine someone would be willing to pay for me to write about them.

All of my time is paid for as a writer...including research.

melaniekhenson · ‎11-04-2017

All of my time is paid for as a writer...including research.

*
Same here. I don't believe we should only get paid for the parts of the job we don't love. 😄 To me that is a negative view of what work is. Work can be something you love. I have loved writing since I was tiny. If I decided it was only fair to get paid for things that were a drag I'd become an accountant instead. 😄

As for already knowing the topic, even if I know a topic backward, forward, up and down, I like to check anyway to see what is new on the subject, to find links and studies, to get a fresh perspective. You can never know it all and sometimes when you're close to a subject you're actually TOO immersed in it; you can become pat and formulaic. (I noticed this writing my 30th or so "Halloween" article for a longtime client.) I love to keep learning and I want to bring something truly unique to the table for my clients.

Sorry, I don't know what happened with the formatting there; both of the above paragraphs are my reply. ^

melaniekhenson · ‎11-03-2017

I don’t think think I am faster than in the past, and I have been writing professionally since 1999.

I really have never thought of writing in terms of trying to get faster. It is creative; it is an art form.

When I went from on-site to freelancing, that is when I first actually timed my work and discovered that I tend to complete any draft, on any subject, at around an hour for 500-ish words. This includes Googling to find out what’s trending in related areas, finding reputable linkable sources, finding images, vetting any hard facts, and writing the first draft.

After this, I edit, and this will either overlap that first hour or extend beyond it, but I will generally call it one hour anyway for billing purposes.

It was very odd at first to have to quantify all this when I spent my childhood thinking writers tap away in an attic thoughtfully while gazing at a sparrow on the windowsill, waiting for the muse to strike. 😎