Are there fake job proposals?

[8a76fbed]

Hello,

I just want to understand whether the job proposals are real on Upwork and whether Upwork is a viable platform.

Over the last 9 months, I have not received any interview offers, despite submitting around 70 proposals, all of which were paid proposals (with bids). All the proposals were aligned with my professional expertise, so it's not just a matter of "sending proposals for the sake of it".

What's even stranger is that none of the proposals seem to have been viewed by clients. It appears like some job postings may be made solely for the purpose of posting, without any real intention of hiring. Otherwise, I cannot understand how jobs are being filled and whether clients are genuinely seeking candidates on the platform.

This situation seems to involve "fake" jobs and renders the platform ineffective for finding work, or ....I do not know how someone could find the job there, I understand any term, but 9 months ... not any interview...looks like it's just the desk with some job offers and connects selling.

Some of messaging which I had were empty and more common to grabing information rather then real interest in my services. The other contacts simply asked sumbit on ther position and then nothing. Do you know what the sense of it? Cause noone then returned back, why to asked, maybe offer ranking or reduce the price with other potential freelancer other then me? hm...

Does anyone have a positive experience and can confirm with real examples, rather than just saying "I found XYZ". I'm looking for genuine experiences.

[williamtcooper]

Most of the Jobs are real with about a 50% hire rate.

Yes, there are occassional fraud posts.

[tjmisny]

Hi William - that percentage seems very high to me.  What are you basing that off of?  I would estimate 30% or so based on studying what I see on posts I apply to.  

[williamtcooper]

Based upon Upwork's published numbers more than a year ago.

[tjmisny]

Source?  Also, this is before the decline of the platform into a Casino-structure, so I am certain it is lower now.  There is no way that half the posts lead to hires (at least not in my industry).  

[williamtcooper]

I have not seen any updated numbers by Upwork so the information could have very well changed since last reported.

[yofazza]

Then why did you make that reassuring and convincing post when, even I who haven't submitted a proposal for months, know that the board is now full of job posts with no hires?

Not to mention, it's not easy to find job posts from clients with a hire rate of 50% or higher.

[jimit-it]

William,

Check these recent posts. Those are duplicates and looks fake. Upwork can prevent it so, connects will not be wasted. 

[williamtcooper]

Agreed.

Through programming and machine learning, many of these fake jobs can be removed automatically.

I would have the software flag potential fake jobs and then have a person verify the flagged list.

I did this all the time with a major website as a solution.

[tjmisny]

It is telling that Upwork is pointedly NOT doing this... 

[amit-benzatine]

I agree with you, Andrii !!!

We are an agency and we have been submitting proposals for the last 10 months, we have $200k+ earnings on our profile but still, we have not gotten a single project in the last 10 months.

We are also facing the same issue, after submitting a number of proposals and wasting connects on fake/scam jobs we did not get hired for a single job in a year.

After reporting the ample number of jobs, no one is looking into this, the situation is still the same. Clients are continuously posing the same and fake jobs again and again without hiring anyone.  

Waiting for other freelancer's or agencies' opinions!
Thank you.

[hydra2016]

Same situation here. 

10 years on upwork, lots of work and interviews, and jobs. 

Now spending more connects than ever, the jobs are not so interesting, proposals do not get viewed by client. 

In the last month, I invested even more in connects, but did not boost proposals. I actually got almost all my proposals viewed, and few interviews. The client then asked almost always for a free 'discover' call, which i do not do anymore. 

They usually disappear and hire someone else. Before, on Upwork client's page, you could see who they actually hired in teh end, Now, it is not visible, Just says 1 hire. Or 'Job cancelled'.

[marjan22]

Yes a lot of jobs are fake becuse Upwork will profit from connects spent on proposals.

But the real question is: 

If Upwork is responsible for its own platform,  by allowing illegal activities on their platform like fake jobs and charging, does that means that UW  scams people for money by profiting from it?  

[feed_my_eyes]

---

 wrote:

Yes a lot of jobs are fake becuse Upwork will profit from connects spent on proposals.

But the real question is: 

If Upwork is responsible for its own platform,  by allowing illegal activities on their platform like fake jobs and charging, does that means that UW  scams people for money by profiting from it?  

---

No, because Upwork doesn't post fake jobs and doesn't allow illegal activities. 

[marjan22]

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No, because Upwork doesn't post fake jobs and doesn't allow illegal activities. 

---

HAHAHAHA

[the-right-writer]

There is no comparison between calling out Upwork on what is known, and what we may think. I understand the feeling that Upwork must be doing the scams intentionally, along with other acts, and I have told Upwork it is their fault for not being forthcoming and getting rid of scams. However, no one has presented evidence that Upwork is intentionally and deliberately creating jobs that are not real, have no client, and are only there to gather more connects.

If you have such evidence, you should go to the authorities so they can take legal action against Upwork.

[2297e2bc]

Problem is this  - lets call it SKIMMIMG, is ocuring on almost every site I use!

It's more of a screw the user business model that perpetrates with the  SUBSCRIPTION model for cable TV!

[2297e2bc]

i actually love the business model of BlackMajicDesign. The first page of the Resolve manual, written by the owner,  is a great inspiration.

[heath1974]

---

 wrote:

Yes a lot of jobs are fake becuse Upwork will profit from connects spent on proposals.

But the real question is: 

If Upwork is responsible for its own platform,  by allowing illegal activities on their platform like fake jobs and charging, does that means that UW  scams people for money by profiting from it?  

---

Unsurprisingly, the words **Edited for Community Guidelines** often mentioned in these forum threads.

And that made me ponder how the current practices deployed by Upwork may be regarded in different legislatures. What I mean is that in many respects, buying/using connects here now is akin to **Edited for Community Guidelines** without any guarantees you'll win anything. Given that I work in iGaming, that's very much how I see things now at Upwork, regarding the system of buying and using connects.

Likewise, this current Upwork model of exploiting freelancers (hard to term it any other way) is also strikingly similar to **Edited for Community Guidelines** in video games. If you're not familiar with the concept already, this article is quite insightful:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

"When I speak of 'loot boxes,' I very broadly mean any in-game purchases with randomised elements that are bought with real-world money, or with premium in-game currency that is bought with real-world money (so-called '**Edited for Community Guidelines**'). Basically, the player does not know exactly what they will get as part of a purchase involving real-world money. This includes social **Edited for Community Guidelines** games, for example." (Quoting the article author)

Sound familiar? Connects are the 'in-game' currency of Upwork, bought with real-world money, and the 'player' (freelancer) does not know exactly what they'll get...

I probably don't submit as many proposals compared to some of you here, and I only bid for specific jobs in my niche of expertise that I'm ideally suited for. That said, from the last 10 proposals (over the last 30 days), only 1 has been viewed and resulted in further communication. And that was a waste of time. Client wanted "Expert" knowledge and service, for the kind of rates that even the greenest of entry-level candidates would consider a joke, regardless of location.

My gripe is that when proposals aren't even viewed, what exactly is the "service" from Upwork to us? What value are those connects actually providing? Shouldn't they be refunded when proposals aren't viewed or jobs are closed without hiring anyone? But I'm sure they don't care, so long as people keep on buying those connects and pumping them into the proposals **Edited for Community Guidelines**.

[tjmisny]

Heath - thank you for your message and for your insight into iGaming.  The parallels are striking.  This is one of the best summaries of why the business model Upwork has pivoted to is so outrageous and detrimental to every aspect of the freelancer's well being.  

[heath1974]

Yes, I've read some of your posts in other threads, Thomas, but haven't had the time to respond earlier. The similarities with the current Upwork model is quite striking, when placing it alongside definitions we might usually associate with "casino" gambling or "loot boxes" in gaming.

[yofazza]

 this current Upwork model of exploiting freelancers (hard to term it any other way) is also strikingly similar to

There are trends, people follow. Other trends:

• Reduction of human support, changed to 'documentation search helper dumbbot', and forums.
• Not to take sides in disputes, but only to hold the money until both parties solve the problem themselves (I realized this a few years ago on a product marketplace).
• Different kinds of "ads" to boost visibility to create competition among users. Pay for click-throughs only, visibility bidding, budgets, maximum daily budgets, this started by Adwords long time ago but I only started to see this implemented on product marketplaces a few years ago. And apparently a freelancer marketplace can implement it as well, as Upwork demonstrate recently.
• Loot box = perception of opportunity, proven to work as well.

Upwork don't profit by being a freelance marketplace. They have over a decade to try (including the predecessor). They follow trends, and it's probably working.

[crart]

Why did they censor your post? Genuinely wanted to read all of that as I am in gaming industry as well, surely Upwork has solid legal base to edit your post that shows exactly how they gamble people.

Oversensitive admins afraid of discussion on real issues this platform has should go away.

[renata101]

Hi Olga,

 The community guidelines are outlined here.  Usually, you can't use foul language (although what that includes is anyone's guess and some seemingly innocuous terms can be edited) and names that identify clients.  There are other criteria in the guidelines.

[the-right-writer]

I read this post before, and while critical and what they might consider "not supporting Upwork" I don't remember anything horrible. Part of what they removed was a site or app for, uhm, how can I say this without being redacted or removed. There was a comparison between Upwork and places that offer activities that have chances of producing a profit margin for your portfolio. Sometimes, literally, what you type will have the moderators remove it for "community guidelines."

I particularly like the way they remove a post, tell you violated the guidelines, but they won't tell you why.

The result was people started to check it out, and realized mere words, no vulgar, offensive, or insulting , or intimidating words were used, but yet would be removed for "community guidelines." If the moderators are going to remove statements or posts, they have a responsibility to tell you why.

[feed_my_eyes]

My experience is that the number of quality jobs has declined and the number of freelancers - especially bad freelancers - has dramatically increased, which has made it much more difficult to get hired. But some freelancers are still doing fine, and some are doing extremely well. Whether it's viable or not will depend on your niche and how good you are at selling your services, and whether Upwork's algorithms favour your proposals and profile.

As for why clients post jobs and don't hire, there are numerous reasons. Many job posts are definitely scams (but they're pretty easy to recognise and avoid). Some clients post jobs on multiple platforms and hire elsewhere, or they find a freelancer via a referral. Some are persuaded by dishonest freelancers to hire them off the platform. Some are scared off by the crappy AI proposals they receive. Some realise that their project isn't viable after getting some feedback and quotes, or their project is delayed, or they lose their funding, or they get hit by a bus. Etc.

Keep in mind that you have no real way of knowing whether the client is actually checking their job post, because Upwork sends numerous emails and they can read those instead logging in here. They can also see the first two lines of your proposal without opening it, so if those two lines don't grab attention immediately, that could be why your proposals aren't showing as "viewed". 

[marjan22]

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Many job posts are definitely scams (but they're pretty easy to recognise and avoid).

---

You just replied to my post, literally just moments ago, that Upwork doesn't allow illegal activities. 😄

[celgins]

Your post stated: "...by allowing illegal activities on their platform like fake jobs..." but a fake job isn't illegal.

Scam jobs violate Upwork's Terms of Service and are considered unethical and might be illegal if they engage in fraudulent activity. For example, clients can request refunds long after a contract ends or contact their bank and ask them to reverse a payment they already made. All seem unethical and scammy, but they're not illegal.

Plus, freelancers seem to have several definitions for "fake."  For instance, if a client posts a job on Upwork and other platforms with the intent to gauge qualifications (i.e., experience, skills, etc.) and hires elsewhere, it doesn't mean the job is fake. The client simply chose to hire elsewhere and got their needs met. There is nothing illegal about that.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

 wrote:

---

Many job posts are definitely scams (but they're pretty easy to recognise and avoid).

---

You just replied to my post, literally just moments ago, that Upwork doesn't allow illegal activities. 😄

---

You need to look up what the word "allow" means. Are there scams here? Yes, but when scammers are caught, they're removed and their job posts are taken down, so in what sense are scams "allowed"?

[marjan22]

That is not true, ive personally  reported 345693754 scam, fake, freelance adds jobs etc, no need to count them all,  and  more than 99% were not taken down. Ive also shown pictures, samples,screenshoots and what else not, almost for a year now.
Only jobs that are taken down are the ones that are reported here, in community ,by freelancers, and they are taken down because they are public and  everybody can see them.Please tell this stories to new freelancers, **Edited for Community Guidelines**

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[the-right-writer]

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

As others have said, if you focused on improving your skills your profile, and your proposal, you might find jobs.

While it's frustrating the jobs are not removed, or removed in a timely manner, it is not true that they are not taken down unless reported here. I'm certain I have flagged and reported more jobs, as have others, than you have, and if you keep going back to check, you will see at least some of them are gone.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[yofazza]

Upwork should be able to be sued for negligence, because they know about the scam, it's repeated, they ignore complaints, and they don't take reasonable steps to prevent it. It's also better if they profited from it.

I mentioned a few times that it's best if a "newb" client in the US who got scammed by some common-repeated methods by freelancers, to do the suing.

As for other people who are not directly impacted by the scam, or only affected by a minor amount (as in this thread), it's better to just be more careful on this (or any) site in my opinion. "Bet" wisely, don't get caught in the game.

[tjmisny]

As much as I am critical of The UW Casino, I don't see any evidence that Upwork is making fake posts.  Where is the evidence?  

[marjan22]

Upwork doesnt need to make fakes or scams, to be held  responsible, and  just with allowimg other fakes , scams etc on its own platfom, and profiting from it, Upwork is the one responsible.

Its like if i allow other people to sell illegal things from my home , and iam profiting from it, iam the one to blame

[yofazza]

I did not say they create fake posts, or doing scams. But, they're doing "negligance" which as far as I know can be the base of a lawsuit.

It's also in the common sense that there's something not-right when a company:

• Repeatedly ignores crimes occurring "under their watch"
• Failed to take reasonable action to prevent
• Profits from it as well.

--

And I think a lawsuit by freelancer isn't feasible. Not enough "proof" and "money involved".

But clients who often got scammed by freelancers, like - just one real example - got charged for thousands of dollars because they didn't know they should 'pause' a contract to prevent freelancers (someone outside Upwork with the power to) charge their card, where this happened repeatedly and Upwork profited from it, are okay if they sue IMO.

[marjan22]

Lawfirms can.They have money, power and knowledge.

[yofazza]

I was talking about the money lost, the damage, which aren't big enough for freelancer to file a lawsuit (and to pay a lawyer)

Not to mention you'll have a hard time in proving if Upwork did ignore and did not do anything to prevent the scam. They can say they "tried" but "understaffed" etc., and they also "have tried not to profit from the scams" (by removing them when they "see" them).

It's different than in the client's case I mentioned above IMO, where "pausing contract" is not a thing that common people usually do after they gave their credit card to a company, where this also happened repeatedly but Upwork always profited from it.

[marjan22]

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Not to mention you'll have a hard time in proving that Upwork ignored and did not do anything to prevent the scam.

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One way to prove it  : Just create scam,fake etc job, that is obvious to everybody, report it as freelncer, they will not remove it and there is your proof.

[the-right-writer]

Then you are adding to the problem by setting up a fake account, with a fake job, collecting connects from people who don't know you are running a scam. And, that proves nothing, except Upwork's usual "filters" don't work.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

 wrote:

I did not say they create fake posts, or doing scams. But, they're doing "negligance" which as far as I know can be the base of a lawsuit.

---

You seem to be assuming that Upwork doesn't have a team of lawyers themselves, who would have looked over their ToS and ensured that it was water-tight (especially since Upwork is located in America where everybody sues over every little thing). These scams have been going on for years, so if anyone had a viable case, don't you think they would have sued Upwork by now? 

The problem is that a lot of freelancers don't seem to realise that they're supposed to be running a business here, and that means taking responsibility for the choices you make. If you choose to work with a certain client/scammer, that's on you - nobody forced you, and there's nothing in Upwork's ToS that guarantees you'll always get paid or that you won't encounter bad people here. Can you find anything on this website that says, "Upwork promises to provide a safe work environment and vet clients for you"? No, you can't, and you can't sue them for negligence if they never promised to protect you in the first place (apart from the limited payment protection, obvs, which doesn't apply to most scams because they happen off the platform when freelancers break the ToS).