hassanrana
Member

Please help me in getting my right

I got this reply from Upwork support

 

**Edited for community guidelines**


The only guarantee is from Upwork, there is no guarantee that client will pay me outside.

Once Upwork notified me by email to stop working on this contract then I immediately stopped because after getting notice payment was not guaranteed.

I suggested Upwork team to not refund his money because I have right on it therefore deposit it into my account and then close this contract.

Issue was on client's side, client got his money back and done his work. Me and my family are suffering.

Humanitarian rights are above all rules and regulations therefore I will avoid discussing rules and regulation of Upwork and
I humbly request CEO of Upwork to please play his part and reimburse me for the sake of children.


-------------------------------------

44 REPLIES 44
prestonhunter
Member

That is not how this works.

bstojadinovic
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Rana Muhammad,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I checked and I see that our team has provided a detailed explanation in your existing ticket. Unfortunately, we won't be able to share more information about your specific case here in the Community.

~ Bojan
Upwork

Hi Bojan,

 

Thanks for your feeling of sorry. But you can understand that I need money to spend on children.

 

I know that there is some misunderstanding that I am fair and even suffering. I am not a lawyer that can discuss the terms and conditions more efficiently therefore what can I do is to appeal CEO of Upwork to reimburse me.

 

Thank you

Rana Muhammad:

Upwork has literally millions of users.

Upwork must follow rules and procedures. To do otherwise would lead to chaos, and the entire system would collapse.


For future reference:
It is not appropriate for you to come to the Forum and make a direct appeal to the CEO of Upwork. Doing so does not help you in any way.

 

It is not appropriate for you to state the you need money for your children.

 

I do not doubt that you would like to receive money that you feel you earned. But pointing out a reason WHY you want money is inappropriate and is not going to do anything to help you get the money.

Additionally, it is not appropriate to PM individual freelancers for help.

@Mary @, This was better to tell me in the reply of PM, anyhow thanks for advice. I will take care.

@Preston H

Everyone needs finance for children, I am just telling the fact which someone ignored.

For all of your questions and objections, I will need to talk about my case in detail, which I am avoiding here. If started discussing terms conditions etc than this will be very long and take time in getting relief.

Upwork team is my team, most of them are my respectable juniours, I must avoid to argue that if mistake or misunderstanding is on my side or Upwork team's side? We are all human and human are not free of errors. Therefore I am directly appealing to Upwork CEO. I respect CEO and finally look towards her.

I completely agree with your saying and which is also a solution "I do not doubt that you would like to receive money that you feel you earned."

Thank you


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

@Mary @, This was better to tell me in the reply of PM, anyhow thanks for advice. I will take care.

@Preston H

Everyone needs finance for children, I am just telling the fact which someone ignored.

For all of your questions and objections, I will need to talk about my case in detail, which I am avoiding here. If started discussing terms conditions etc than this will be very long and take time in getting relief.

Upwork team is my team, most of them are my respectable juniours, I must avoid to argue that if mistake or misunderstanding is on my side or Upwork team's side? We are all human and human are not free of errors. Therefore I am directly appealing to Upwork CEO. I respect CEO and finally look towards her.

I completely agree with your saying and which is also a solution "I do not doubt that you would like to receive money that you feel you earned."

Thank you


Hi Rana, 

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. However, Mary's right about not PMing other freelancers on the forum. We're just freelancers like you, and we don't have any special pull with Upwork in matters like this. 

I do see on your profile that you've done a lot of good work on the site and that your JSS is 100. So I hope things work out in your favour. Bojan is checking into it. 

Hi Renata, 

 

looks that my amount was little big, therefore why this is happening, I am looking towards them. The response which I got is not appropriate because that was giving message of don't trust Upwork payment system. As that freelancer described that upwork payment guarantee is a joke or what

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/upwork-payment-guarantee-a-nice-joke/td-p/327572

 

I sent additional arguments in this issue and I am sure that I am fair in my request and will get relief, there can be delay but finally be sorted out, anyhow very painful.

 

Thank you

Hi Rana Muhammad,

 

Unfortunately, we won't be able to share any further details here about this reversal for privacy reasons. I followed up with the team handling this case and the agent will provide you with more information via this ticket.

~ Bojan
Upwork

I talked to many support agents and all are showing sympathy but still stuck. I am thankful to them from my heart.

I am a senior freelancer. We have made Upwork great therefore very important to take care of the freelancers who gained good name for Upwork and give them relief on urgent basis.

 

Same happened to me like this freelancer. Team has identified and told me that problem is on client side and he voilated. As this freelancer in thread told about client. Client's payment method was  verified initially. This freelancer and me followed and trusted on Upwork payment system.

 

Please read this thread

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/upwork-payment-guarantee-a-nice-joke/td-p/327572

 

He faced same situation and frustration like me in the beginning and then finally got relief after about 10 days of struggle.

 

After reading this thread, will this take much more time to understand my situation and giving relief? me and my family will need to suffer more.

 

Thank you

hassanrana
Member

Trust and safety team is telling that "don't trust" Upwork because this is "not safe".

 

I have cleared all their reservations in the chat with the support agents but they are still stuck,

Even I presented the same case but they are telling that we provided relief to that freelancer but not to you. Because we take cases differently even "similar cases differently". Are they deciding cases on their personal like or dislike. Because 2+2 can not be 5 in other calculation. From first day, they are insisting that their decision is final, I asked some questions and discussed but they looked unclear and at the end stuck that decision is final. Only support agents talked to me and felt that I can be on right foot but they can not contest my case because "DECISION OF TRUST AND SAFETY TEAM IS FINAL"

 

The person decided this even did not come on chat once so that he could ask or clear my conerns and misunderstandings.. Just saying that we are also contacting client and alongside "PUNISHING" you.

 

The clause they are taking is

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

where this is written in this clause that freelancer is not protected. Money can be returned to client to avoid any further problem from client's side. But needs to accomodate the freelancer on the other hand who trusted  Upwork payment guarantee. This is not according to even applicable law, humanitairan law and moral values to punish the fair person who trusted Upwork payment system.

 

When you say appropriate than means to give relief to the victim not punishing. If they say that this is appropriate for them than their whole decision collapses and not acceptable on any forum.

 

I am lossing hope from Trust and Safety team because they did not cooridante wth me completely and their decision is not according to the situation and giving relief to victim.

 

I have been worrying for about last 10 days.I request CEO Hayden Brown to please give me relief by specific decision,  I am loyal to Upwork and earned very good name for Upwork. Thank you

Hi Rana,

 

I'm certainly sorry to hear about the experience you went through. This was forwarded to the team and an agent will follow up with you via a support ticket for further assistance.

 

Thank you.

~ Luiggi
Upwork

Hi,

 

I got this message

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


What was the benefit of letting me know about resolution if they don't want to understand and don't have valid reasons to justify resolution.
I countered the reolution line by line and also asked that if there is any other thought, question or misunderstanding than let me know. 

But their resolution has no reasons to stand and every time I counter their misunderstandings then nothing to say from there side, just that we will not change the decision.

Merely providing the resolution is not desirable state rather relief shall be ensured.

Hi Rana,

 

I already followed up with the team and you can expect an update on your support ticket very soon.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork

Hi,


They marked the ticket as solved? Their behavior shows that the decision contains flaws. Anyhow I respect them, mistakes happen.

 

I am honest and fair, If they have any further misunderstandings, questions or objections then ask me otherwise revert the decision in my favor.


Thank you

Once again ticket is market as solved. 

Please make this decision null and assign a fresh mind to solve it, Who could discuss with me and we could clear each others questions. Ready made mind can not do it.

 

Thank you


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

They marked the ticket as solved? Their behavior shows that the decision contains flaws.


No, it shows that a decision is final.

 

 

Hi Petra,

 

I work as an order fullfiller, client pays for the products to purchase  The hard part is that when the team made reversal to client than client got both his money and product. And the price of product fall on me. This directly hit me and my family because this was savings for us. The team unintentionally put the money from my pocket into client's pocket. The client became later inactie which was his wise act of cheating.

 

If the team could not protect me under payment guarantee than at least through any other informal decision they can compensate me. In such cases even bank reimburses.

 

With due respect, do this team don't have children and family?

re: "I work as an order fullfiller, client pays for the products to purchase  The hard part is that when the team made reversal to client than client got both his money and product. And the price of product fall on me. This directly hit me and my family because this was savings for us. The team unintentionally put the money from my pocket into client's pocket. The client became later inactive which was his wise act of cheating."

 

You work in an inherently risky niche. It is your responsibility to understand the risks and work in a way that minimizes those risks.

 

 

re: "If the team could not protect me under payment guarantee than at least through any other informal decision they can compensate me. In such cases even bank reimburses."

 

Upwork has rules and procedures that it follows. Upwork employees and representatives do not want to be fired because they violate those rules and send you some cash.

Believe me that Upwork payment system is a state of art system. And I was going to be paid on particular date automatically after deduction of upwork fees. I don't use other medium for receiving finance. As written on one of the main pages.
"Upwork Payment Protection adds a level of security to payment processing for hourly and fixed-price projects, allowing clients and freelancers to collaborate on projects with peace of mind."

 

The base line is that if a decision is facilitating a cheater and the victim is looking for relief than there is definitely something wrong in making decision. Upwork employees and representatives are after all not error free human and I can understand that mistakes can happen but must be corrected. This will increase trust of freelancers on Upwork payment system.

 

Thank you

hassanrana
Member

I don't know the names of the persons responsible for this wrong decision otherwise I will like to address those by name instead of calling them Team Upwork because Upwork teams consist of hundreds of members and all are not same.

They made wrong decision and when I asked for objections and cleared all their objections than they started telling that they will not revert their decision. Obviously because in reverting decision they will need to admit their mistake. Their typical behavior was to blaming the victim for hiding their mistake. because if they admit mistake then they will be effected. I invite those persons to discuss with me in this thread. I will happily contest. No other person from team Upwork but only those persons who made such wrong decision shall face me in this thread if they are right.

 

Here is my latest conversation with**Edited for community guidelines**support agent, 

 

**Edited for community guidelines**

I get that you disagree with the decision, but that's the decision. They've said it's final. You need to stop wasting time on this and recover, apply for jobs again and start earning money instead of wasting time fighting a decision that won't change. 

Amanda, I did not only disagree but contested successfully as you have read in the conversation. Nothing is final until the victim gets the relief and decision corrected. If they think that their decision is right then I have invited them to contest here in the thread. I am not wasting time but consuming time to make it correct. If something has gone wrong then we must correct it. Otherwise this can happen to anyone. I don't care that how much higher is the person making decision in hierarchy. If he/she has no valid points and no more objections then must revert the decision now. 


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

Amanda, I did not only disagree but contested successfully as you have read in the conversation. Nothing is final until the victim gets the relief and decision corrected. If they think that their decision is right then I have invited them to contest here in the thread. I am not wasting time but consuming time to make it correct. If something has gone wrong then we must correct it. Otherwise this can happen to anyone. I don't care that how much higher is the person making decision in hierarchy. If he/she has no valid points and no more objections then must revert the decision now. 


How did you contest anything successfully? Your concern was noted, which usually means "I'll write it down but nothing will come of it." Did they revert the decision yet? Did you get your money yet? If so, then why are you posting here? You have continued to miss the point. That agent in the conversation told you numerous times why the decision was made and that it was final. When you objected, he made a note of it. That's nothing. That's not a reversal of the decision. You can keep arguing but if the client did not pay and you did not use the time tracker properly then you are out of luck. 


The client paid by escrow payment guarantee. initially his payment method was verified then became unverified then this all started. I don't have any fault and always work for clients with good intention. You can see my profile

I contested that I answered to all the objections and no more objection came from them, even no objection on my given answers.

You can see that the agent is also looking helpless and saying that he can not superseed. He has nothing to say rather that the decision is final. Final decision can not be wrong?

I am posting here so that decision could be corrected. Upwork has huge management. But I will like to discuss it with the decision maker here in thread.

The points and questions which you raised can force any one to think that is this safe place to work?


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

But I will like to discuss it with the decision maker here in thread.

I'm sure you would like that, it's not going to happen.

 

This has been going on for a month, you have been told literally countless times that the decision is final. Accept it and move on.

 

if someone tells countless times that crow is white than will you agree? you will definitely ask that how crow is white someone painted or what happened. if there is no valid reason than you will tell him that this is wrong.


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

if someone tells countless times that crow is white than will you agree? 


That isn't the case here. Nobody claimed that a crow is white.

 

You were told the decision for a month, you were told it's final in endless ways. Move on.


Petra R wrote:


That isn't the case here. Nobody claimed that a crow is white.

 

This was an example that saying countless times don't mean right or wrong of a fact.

 


Petra R wrote:

You were told the decision for a month, you were told it's final in endless ways. Move on.


They also suggested me that I could sue the client, 

such an unhelpful and impractical suggestion. I live in a third world country with no social benefits, How I will get visa and How I will buy ticket to US.How I will pay the fees of lawyers, and where I will reside? Being in a third world country, I even can not launch my campaign on GoFundMe to recover loss, unfortunate.


Rana Muhammad H wrote:


They also suggested me that I could sue the client, 

such an unhelpful and impractical suggestion. I live in a third world country with no social benefits, How I will get visa and How I will buy ticket to US.How I will pay the fees of lawyers, and where I will reside? Being in a third world country, I even can not launch my campaign on GoFundMe to recover loss, unfortunate.


Yes. And that's why it's time to understand the meaning of "final" and move on. 


Petra R wrote:


Yes. And that's why it's time to understand the meaning of "final" and move on. 


Do you want to say that if decision is baseless and someone says final than accept it?

Hi Rana,

 

I understand and I'm sorry this is not the outcome you were hoping to see for your case. However, I see that it had already been escalated to our Executive Escalations team and thoroughly reviewed by them. Please refer to the support ticket you had with them #29567473 for detailed information about the refund and their suggestions. Unfortunately, there is no further information we can share and the resolution provided on the ticket is final. With that, I'll be closing this thread from further replies. 

~ Valeria
Upwork

"Client satisfaction pays dividends for ALL Upwork users."

 

I am among initial freelancers of Upwork who made this marketplace successful with honest work. Just see that how many clients I satisfied in eleven years and ALL Upwork users got dividend from this efforts and hard work. But now I am facing the issue not much from clients but ... you understand. ( I will not say Upwork because dont' know the names of members of Upwork team responsible for wrong decision)

Hi Rana Muhammad,

 

I checked that you already have an open ticket regarding your concern with your payment from your client. One of our agents will update you directly via ticket. Thank you. 

~ Joanne
Upwork

Do not be surprised when your transcript is removed. It is considered a violation to post them, regardless of content.

Douglas, If I say that decision is wrong than how members will know the other side therefore I posted this transcript here. Otherwise members will think that decision was not in my favor therefore I am baseless in calling  it wrong.

I invited that person who made this decision to come in this thread and discuss with me. If I clear all his/her objections than simply revert decision. When I cleared all his objections in the tickets and asked for more of his objections than he/she stopped responding and last words that marking this issue as solved. Many times Upwork team helped me therefore I don't consider all the Upwork team responsible, talking about only person who made this decision. 


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

I invited that person who made this decision to come in this thread and discuss with me. 


They won't and would not be allowed to even if they wanted to.

If you want to keep using Upwork, you might want to give it a rest. At least you still have your Upwork account (for now.)

 


Rana Muhammad H wrote:

When I cleared all his objections in the tickets and asked for more of his objections than he/she stopped responding and last words that marking this issue as solved. 


There is only so many times a company will tell you a decision is final before making it as solved. You didn't "clear" objections.

 

You want to let this go. 



If they are right than they can do it, If they have any other objections than they can ask here. I will contest or agree with them.
Slap on the face of a person than tell him that stop talking otherwise there is second slap. is it fair? who does it wrong or right?

I asked them that I did not clear which objection, nothing came from them.

 


Rana Muhammad H wrote:


If they are right than they can do it, If they have any other objections than they can ask here. I will contest or agree with them.
Slap on the face of a person than tell him that stop talking otherwise there is second slap. is it fair? who does it wrong or right?

I asked them that I did not clear which objection, nothing came from them.

 


Just because you want to continue arguing and the other person does not want to continue arguing, it doesn't mean that you are right and they are wrong. It just means that they've said everything that they want to say and now it's waste of time to continue repeating themselves. Do you not understand the meaning of the word "final"?

 

Everyone who runs a business for any length of time will inevitably end up not getting paid by somebody at some point; it isn't fair and it's horrible when that happens, but you write it off as bad debt and consider it to be the cost of doing business, and move on.