My proposals are archived!

[#1]

Who can explain me why the half of my new proposals are archived? Today I posted a job to find a good freelancer for my project, but an hour later I discovered that the most of the proposals are in the archive list. What's going on? I even didn't have an opportunity to review the freelancers. Upwork promotes some freelancers and hides others?

[#2]

so...my stats say:
You've applied to 72 jobs in the past 90 days
I haven't received a single reply, my proposals weren't declined (and of course, I didn't land a single job). Am I to assume that all of those proposals ended up in the  oubliette? I believe I was a good fit for all of them - and I don't have a problem if the client doesn't want to hire me, or doesn't like my portfolio or proposal - but if someone who was  constantly inviting me to translating jobs,  video editing, proofreading and composing projects (!) is  throwing  my proposlas  in some virtual trash bin (without me knowing, of course), I  would like my connects back please. I did pay for those, you know...

[#3]

@Sanja D.

Slight correction/clarification: "...is  throwing  my proposlas  in some virtual trash bin -- although the Terms of Service (Section 2.1) assure me that 'Upwork... makes the Site and Site Services available to enable Freelancers and Clients to find and transact directly with each other [and that] Upwork does not... find Freelancers for Clients' and that 'at all times... [u]sers are responsible for evaluating and determining the suitability of any... Freelancer on their own' -- (without me knowing, of course), I  would like my connects back please. I did pay for those, you know..."

[#4]

I'm glad I found this thread! I'm new to Upwork. I've gotten 3 jobs so far after sending 56 proposals. Every proposal I send is thoughtful and custom to the job I'm applying for. I have received great feedback so far and I'm really trying to build up my reviews to keep building momentum. Sadly, this thread has taken some wind out of my sails. I'm now questioning if I'm using the right platform.

It's disheartening to know that some of my proposals are being discarded by someone who doesn't know me, the quality of my work, and the experience I bring to the table. Especially being new -- how much is that working against me? Begs the question, as someone just starting out should I even bother trying to build up my profile on Upwork?

It's especially frustrating to know that I am paying for connects and they may be totally wasted. Upwork has yet to respond how connects we're paying for are handled when someone other than the client archives our proposal.

[#5]

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Eric C wrote:

It's especially frustrating to know that I am paying for connects and they may be totally wasted. Upwork has yet to respond how connects we're paying for are handled when someone other than the client archives our proposal.

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 Personally I don't pay for Connects but that is one of the most "interesting" facets of this whole farce.

Upwork simply can not take money for Connects and then instruct those Talent Specialists to chuck out the proposals bought with the Connects they sold you.

It's pretty much like a lottery company selling you tickets, and then letting some employee decide which lottery tickets will reach the draw and which will not.

[#6]

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Petra R wrote:

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Eric C wrote:

It's especially frustrating to know that I am paying for connects and they may be totally wasted. Upwork has yet to respond how connects we're paying for are handled when someone other than the client archives our proposal.

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 Personally I don't pay for Connects but that is one of the most "interesting" facets of this whole farce.

Upwork simply can not take money for Connects and then instruct those Talent Specialists to chuck out the proposals bought with the Connects they sold you.

It's pretty much like a lottery company selling you tickets, and then letting some employee decide which lottery tickets will reach the draw and which will not.

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I can't imagine that it's legal to take money for a product you're not giving in return ... perhaps this is what's taking them so long to respond ... "let's see, how can we put a good spin on stealing a freelancer's money without giving them anything in return?" Uh-oh ... we can't.

[#7]

What Petra said, and also... You may or may not be suffering impact from that TS archiving travesty. None of us knows which of our proposals, if any, get binned. But your numbers don't necessarily indicate it's the case.

I just took a quick look at my own history. I joined UW in August 2016. I happily accept both fixed-price and hourly contracts, depending on the scope of work and the client's needs and preferences. I currently have 370 archived proposals and 30 contracts with around 20 clients (including active, paused and closed). I was tied up with obligations off the platform for the middle six months of 2018 and submitted no proposals and accepted no invitations during that time. As soon as I became more available, existing clients popped up with more than enough work to keep me busy (combined with off-platform projects). I am currently exchanging emails with a potential new client for an immediate project. She liked a proposal I submitted last spring but had a very tight timeline I couldn't meet. She contacted me yesterday about something new, and we are in the process of figuring out whether I can deliver what she needs within her timeframe. If we can work it out, it'll be an UW contract, of course. I mention it to illustrate how any seed you sow can eventually bear fruit. I feel like she and I are a good fit, so even if this one doesn't work out, either, another one eventually will (especially if I can get her to plan a little farther ahead!).

It's a long game. It doesn't help that UW is such a slave to the algorithm (and under-compensated and therefore, under-qualified staffing). But the boneheaded processes and policies notwithstanding, it's been a great tool for me.

[#8]

Quite a few jobs I have bid on recently have had only a few proposals - and it always seems to be just five. I wonder if this is the cut-off point and any other bids however suitable get archived. I never bid on entry-level jobs or poorly paid jobs. 

Perhaps these jobs are invitation only and so are simply wallpaper when one sees them in one's job feed. It is difficult to assess anything correctly at the moment. 

[#9]

Imagine if some enterprising attorney were to organize a class-action lawsuit against Upwork, in which those affected by this "poofing" of proposals were created as plaintiffs. (At least once a year I am contacted by mail and told that I am automatically part of some class action or another -- maybe because I purchased toothpaste with a faulty screw-on cap, or because I flew on an airline that overcharged for checked luggage, or because I owned a car that included an engine part that should have been subject to a recall. Or maybe even because I might have used talcum powder!)

Is UW's recordkeeping detailed enough to allow a reconstruction of whose proposals were archived and whose were not? How would anyone ever be able to prove (or, more to the point: able to defend against the accusation of) economic harm done to any Freelancer whose proposal was thus hidden from a prospective client? Could UW find itself in the position of being liable to reimburse all Freelancers for paid "Connects"? What would be the liability to Freelancers who used the site and availed themselves of un-paid "Connects," but whose proposals were subject to un-wanted, un-solicited, and potentially detrimental intermediation by a Talent Specialist?

[#10]

On a related but less important point, I object to the fact that archived and declined proposals are not included in the displayed number of proposals. It gives us a false impression of how much competition there is for the job. Like most freelancers (I assume), I'm more inclined to apply for a job which is shown as having fewer proposals already. But the reason the job has fewer proposals shown could have nothing to with the level of competition. It could be purely because that client or a TS has been declining/archiving some proposals, as compared with another job where rejected proposals are left active.

[#11]

@ Richard W.

This observation underscores the fact that archived proposals produce an adverse effect that potentially affects ALL Freelancers -- even those who do not pay for extra Connects.

And I have not even mentioned the adverse economic effects that are potentially visited upon clients, who may not have been able to freely select the best Freelancer for a given project.

[#12]

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Richard W wrote:

On a related but less important point, I object to the fact that archived and declined proposals are not included in the displayed number of proposals. It gives us a false impression of how much competition there is for the job. Like most freelancers (I assume), I'm more inclined to apply for a job which is shown as having fewer proposals already. But the reason the job has fewer proposals shown could have nothing to with the level of competition. It could be purely because that client or a TS has been declining/archiving some proposals, as compared with another job where rejected proposals are left active.

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 _______________

Agreed, that is what crossed my mind too. 

[#13]

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Richard W wrote:

On a related but less important point, I object to the fact that archived and declined proposals are not included in the displayed number of proposals. It gives us a false impression of how much competition there is for the job. Like most freelancers (I assume), I'm more inclined to apply for a job which is shown as having fewer proposals already. But the reason the job has fewer proposals shown could have nothing to with the level of competition. It could be purely because that client or a TS has been declining/archiving some proposals, as compared with another job where rejected proposals are left active.

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 This.

They should just go ahead and show how many proposals are in every bucket for a job post:

# active (= any proposal submitted that hasn't been declined, archived or withdrawn)

# declined

# archived

# withdrawn

[#14]

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Nichola L wrote:

Perhaps these jobs are invitation only and so are simply wallpaper when one sees them in one's job feed. It is difficult to assess anything correctly at the moment. 

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I a client selects the invite-only option, their job posting does not show in the job feeds.

[#15]

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Rene K wrote:

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Nichola L wrote:

Perhaps these jobs are invitation only and so are simply wallpaper when one sees them in one's job feed. It is difficult to assess anything correctly at the moment. 

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I a client selects the invite-only option, their job posting does not show in the job feeds.

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That's what I thought, which makes it odd that a juicy, job offer with an acceptable rate only gets five proposals after being up for an hour or so. 

[#16]

Hi Everyone,

We appreciate and value the feedback that was shared in this thread and understand your shared concerns. We are always looking to improve our processes. Our goal is to help not hinder the growth of your businesses. Given the feedback that some clients and freelancers were not aware of this part of Talent Services, Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

-Lena

[#17]

@Lena,
Thank you very much - finally some good news!

[#18]

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Lena E wrote:

Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

This is a good thing, thanks.

Archiving makes one fat anyways. 

[#19]

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Lena E wrote:

Hi Everyone,

We appreciate and value the feedback that was shared in this thread and understand your shared concerns. We are always looking to improve our processes. Our goal is to help not hinder the growth of your businesses. Given the feedback that some clients and freelancers were not aware of this part of Talent Services, Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

-Lena

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Honestly, the single most stunning thing I have witnessed from UW. Dare I hope that there is some business maturity starting to peek through? A smart business move and one I hope portends to more thoughtful business practices going forward. 

[#20]

What Scott said.  Well done, UW.

[#21]

+  1 more for Scott's comment and a huge thank you and mahalo to U management for recognizing and correcting a serious issue.

[#22]

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Scott B wrote:

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Lena E wrote:

Hi Everyone,

We appreciate and value the feedback that was shared in this thread and understand your shared concerns. We are always looking to improve our processes. Our goal is to help not hinder the growth of your businesses. Given the feedback that some clients and freelancers were not aware of this part of Talent Services, Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

-Lena

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Honestly, the single most stunning thing I have witnessed from UW. Dare I hope that there is some business maturity starting to peek through? A smart business move and one I hope portends to more thoughtful business practices going forward. 

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I echo Scott's reply. I am beyond happy to finally see that our concerns were noted and things have changed because of them. I just hope something like this NEVER happens again. 

[#23]

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@lenaellis wrote:

Hi Everyone,

We appreciate and value the feedback that was shared in this thread and understand your shared concerns. We are always looking to improve our processes. Our goal is to help not hinder the growth of your businesses. Given the feedback that some clients and freelancers were not aware of this part of Talent Services, Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

-Lena

That's great news. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I hope that we are never again made to wait this long for answers to an issue this serious; it's been an awful few weeks.

A few questions:

1) Is Upwork going to address the question of paid-for connects on bids that were trashed?

2) Is Upwork planning to improve the talent specialist experience?

It's telling that these two questions haven't been answered. Despite the so-called conclusion to this fiasco, many of us would still like more clarity. I'm guessing the paid-for connects thing is a can of worms Upwork is afraid to open. If I were a freelancer who paid for connects, I'd be opening a ticket to get some answers.

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[#24]

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Lena E wrote:  Given the feedback that some clients and freelancers were not aware of this part of Talent Services, Talent Specialists have ceased archiving proposals and will no longer archive going forward.

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 Good.

I just hope this won't be quietly replaced by some other mechanism...

First we had the infamous "hidden" folder, then this mess.

Can we also get a reassurance that not only will the talent "specialists" no longer archive proposals, nor will some algorithm or automated process, and Upwork won't just rename / adapt the process of trashing peoples' proposals once the uproar has died down.

[#25]

A comment that I have read about this topic, written by a client.
He says that, in a published job (in which a "complementary talent specialist" was involved), proposals were not "archived" (so far, good), but that more than 1/3 of the proposals were sent to the end of the list and, in order to see them, you have to press "load more".
In addition, the visible proposals were marked as "best match" and those hidden as "not qualified".
The commentary goes on to say that, these "hidden" and "unqualified" proposals had the same preferences / qualifications / abilities that he established in his offer and among them, some freelancers better classified and with good income.

So, have we still same problem but in a different way?
Just to know.

[#26]

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Maria T wrote:

A comment that I have read about this topic, written by a client.
He says that, in a published job (in which a "complementary talent specialist" was involved), proposals were not "archived" (so far, good), but that more than 1/3 of the proposals were sent to the end of the list and, in order to see them, you have to press "load more".
In addition, the visible proposals were marked as "best match" and those hidden as "not qualified".
The commentary goes on to say that, these "hidden" and "unqualified" proposals had the same preferences / qualifications / abilities that he established in his offer and among them, some freelancers better classified and with good income.

So, have we still same problem but in a different way?
Just to know.

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Same same but different!

Thanks for reporting. It's unbelievable - the lengths UW goes to in order to meddle with our proposals.